Expidite through which level?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,155
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
hi Bigmouth;
We have found BIG differences in climb and such between aircraft, especially the RJ's. There is max econ climb, and then a regular climb, and then the one where they are barely climbing on the last leg of the day where they are going as fast as they can <G>... Depends on who is flying the aircraft and how they feel about flying it on that leg...
regards
Scott
We have found BIG differences in climb and such between aircraft, especially the RJ's. There is max econ climb, and then a regular climb, and then the one where they are barely climbing on the last leg of the day where they are going as fast as they can <G>... Depends on who is flying the aircraft and how they feel about flying it on that leg...
regards
Scott
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 561
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From: Brisbane, Australia
Scott,
Hi, glad you joined in the discussion. Yeah we don't have the traffic levels you have in the States, so I could understand you might use it to express some urgency to the PICs. I just don't think it's a very good technique.
From my experience there are a number of aircraft types that always climb at best rate. For instance, the Brasilia, flown in Oz for some time, always climbs at it's best rate. Ask it to expedite, and nothing changes. The DASH 8 is often quite similar depending on the model and the company that operates it. So you can't rely on "expedite" to speed an aircrafts rate of climb.
Catchyalater
DP
Hi, glad you joined in the discussion. Yeah we don't have the traffic levels you have in the States, so I could understand you might use it to express some urgency to the PICs. I just don't think it's a very good technique.
From my experience there are a number of aircraft types that always climb at best rate. For instance, the Brasilia, flown in Oz for some time, always climbs at it's best rate. Ask it to expedite, and nothing changes. The DASH 8 is often quite similar depending on the model and the company that operates it. So you can't rely on "expedite" to speed an aircrafts rate of climb.
Catchyalater
DP
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,155
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Hi Dirty;
Wish that I could have made it to IFATCA to come and watch how y'all do it down under <G>... If you are ever our my way, give me a call. If you give me a couple of months notice, and they don't change the security stuff, I might even be able to get you in the facility <G>...
Take care
Scott
Wish that I could have made it to IFATCA to come and watch how y'all do it down under <G>... If you are ever our my way, give me a call. If you give me a couple of months notice, and they don't change the security stuff, I might even be able to get you in the facility <G>...
Take care
Scott
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 43
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From: Above Sea Level
What do you controllers expect on asking a 146 to expedite climb? Is it a) try to at least climb like everyone else does when climbing normally or b) really expedite?
Because, if a) we might be able for a couple of thousand feet but speed will fall to about 210kts but if b) not possible.
Because, if a) we might be able for a couple of thousand feet but speed will fall to about 210kts but if b) not possible.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 99
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From: Southampton
Hiya OSB.
We always (should) know your a/c type and have a fair idea of the likely a/c performance. Speaking from a TMA environment up to around FL100 I'd anticipate 1-2000 ft/min from a 146, and if asked to expedite around 2.5-3000 ft/min.
We're aware that you're not going to accelerate past Mach 1, (or even 0.1..) and it's not usually a problem. What that does give you 146 sorts though is a good ROC/mile which gives us other options to offer early climb.
We always (should) know your a/c type and have a fair idea of the likely a/c performance. Speaking from a TMA environment up to around FL100 I'd anticipate 1-2000 ft/min from a 146, and if asked to expedite around 2.5-3000 ft/min.
We're aware that you're not going to accelerate past Mach 1, (or even 0.1..) and it's not usually a problem. What that does give you 146 sorts though is a good ROC/mile which gives us other options to offer early climb.
