Primary Radar Scanners
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I don't thing anything beats a primary radar - nothing like tuning it up yourself to provide the best picture. BUT.. the youngsters nowadays are being brought up on "TV" displays so they know no different and they do the job just as well. It's all down to a) personal preference and b) old farts like me not wanting to accept new technology!
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I remember when my local airfield still had a Plessey 430 it was used for doing 1/2 mile SRA's on the runway without the ILS. The closer the aircraft came, the faster the head would spin. Every time this happened I expected it to break loose and fly away. I think this was an example of a radar head in 'talkdown mode'. Back in those days there was only one radar controller and one display so following traffic couldn't be sequenced until the preceding aircraft had completed it's approach (or gone around, as was often the case). Then the radar head could settle down again. I'm pretty certain this doesn't happen with the Watchman.
In fact, I don't think 1/2 mile SRA's are available with this radar. Just 1 or 2 miles these days.
Progress all but listening to those SRA's and watching that 430 head was very entertaining.
In fact, I don't think 1/2 mile SRA's are available with this radar. Just 1 or 2 miles these days.
Progress all but listening to those SRA's and watching that 430 head was very entertaining.
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I don't thing anything beats a primary radar
Personally, I find that trying to maintain idents on 20 aircraft and using my skill and 'spot the ball' judgement to guess their level without asking is getting a bit hard these days. Thank God for Mode A & C ... even if the old farts never adapted to it 
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Give me a MSSR over a PSR any day........
(But then you need some proper airspace to bin the PSR......
)
We have a acient ASR-7 PSR on our SSR/PSR rigg, but I'm glad we have MSSR coverage from a different sensor above MSA. The PSR goes u/s all the time anyway so.......
Ranger: If you run 2 mill pax on PSR only, you have my sympathies!
(But then you need some proper airspace to bin the PSR......
)We have a acient ASR-7 PSR on our SSR/PSR rigg, but I'm glad we have MSSR coverage from a different sensor above MSA. The PSR goes u/s all the time anyway so.......
Ranger: If you run 2 mill pax on PSR only, you have my sympathies!
Primary Radar Scanners
The radars at Glasgow in the 70's were Marconi 264AH's. They were gated so contacts were only seen out to 60 miles but were capable of seeing considerably further.
I believe there is a preserved example of a 264 aerial (which was originally installed in 1962) at the old ATCC at Hack Green in Cheshire.
I believe there is a preserved example of a 264 aerial (which was originally installed in 1962) at the old ATCC at Hack Green in Cheshire.
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<<Depends what for Personally, I find that trying to maintain idents on 20 aircraft and using my skill and 'spot the ball' judgement to guess their level without asking is getting a bit hard these days. Thank God for Mode A & C ... even if the old farts never adapted to it >>
Oh I agree.. I didn't say anything about not having SSR!
When SSR first came in at Heathrow at least one watch wouldn't use it - soon as they took over they switched it all off! Said it was reducing their basic skills (and they were probably right). It was fairly standard practice on all watches for trainees to suddenly have the SSR turned off.. Imagine what would happen nowadays?
Oh I agree.. I didn't say anything about not having SSR!
When SSR first came in at Heathrow at least one watch wouldn't use it - soon as they took over they switched it all off! Said it was reducing their basic skills (and they were probably right). It was fairly standard practice on all watches for trainees to suddenly have the SSR turned off.. Imagine what would happen nowadays?
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Hmmmm SSR.....
I also recall the first time I encountered this. Having worked on Primary only (AR1 / 424) for some time, SSR was installed. I plainly remember thinking How the heck am I supposed to keep track of everything with all these numbers cluttering up the tube???
I'm serious, that's what most of us thought at the time. How time change. Anybody have the same experience?
rgds BEX
I also recall the first time I encountered this. Having worked on Primary only (AR1 / 424) for some time, SSR was installed. I plainly remember thinking How the heck am I supposed to keep track of everything with all these numbers cluttering up the tube???
I'm serious, that's what most of us thought at the time. How time change. Anybody have the same experience?
rgds BEX
Great Unwashed
Amused to see your description of the 430 radar aerial increasing in r.p.m. As produced by Mr Plessey, it had a choice of 20 rpm or 40 rpm. Those that I have known had the 40 rpm capability removed - it was totally unnecessary and the poor old turning motor and the mechanical coils in the displays were trying to self-destruct at that rate. Although you had a higher renewal rate at 40 rpm, the number of strikes from the very underpowered pulses was reduced so you were really kidding yourself.
The 430 was Hard Work, to put it politely - or to put it not so politely, without a whole shedload of local modifications, as a pukka surveillance radar (as opposed to just SRAs) it was a heap of sh1te!
Amused to see your description of the 430 radar aerial increasing in r.p.m. As produced by Mr Plessey, it had a choice of 20 rpm or 40 rpm. Those that I have known had the 40 rpm capability removed - it was totally unnecessary and the poor old turning motor and the mechanical coils in the displays were trying to self-destruct at that rate. Although you had a higher renewal rate at 40 rpm, the number of strikes from the very underpowered pulses was reduced so you were really kidding yourself.
The 430 was Hard Work, to put it politely - or to put it not so politely, without a whole shedload of local modifications, as a pukka surveillance radar (as opposed to just SRAs) it was a heap of sh1te!
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HD,
I remember we had an EKCO ARAA at Elstree back in about '66. It had a little green 'A-scope', bicycle handlebars and brake levers, a photographers black silk hood and a box to stand on. As you turned around in the dark you fell off the box, clung onto the handlebar, operated the 'brake', and nearly pulled the whole contraption through the damp hardboard ceiling. Imagine that at one mile from touchdown......
It may well have been Southend's throw-out? I don't think it ever got commissioned.
We still have the Decca 424 at Lasham, going strong....ish. (Bren, email me if you wanna see it in action!)
We are hoping ATSSD will allow us to upgrade to a 430.........!
I remember we had an EKCO ARAA at Elstree back in about '66. It had a little green 'A-scope', bicycle handlebars and brake levers, a photographers black silk hood and a box to stand on. As you turned around in the dark you fell off the box, clung onto the handlebar, operated the 'brake', and nearly pulled the whole contraption through the damp hardboard ceiling. Imagine that at one mile from touchdown......
It may well have been Southend's throw-out? I don't think it ever got commissioned.
We still have the Decca 424 at Lasham, going strong....ish. (Bren, email me if you wanna see it in action!)
We are hoping ATSSD will allow us to upgrade to a 430.........!
Hi All,
I think Cambridge still do half mile SRAs using a 424.
Any "fans" of the CR-62 PAR out there? I sometimes miss it when the new RPAR starts getting twitchy!
LXGB
I think Cambridge still do half mile SRAs using a 424.
Any "fans" of the CR-62 PAR out there?
I sometimes miss it when the new RPAR starts getting twitchy! LXGB
(if you ever used a CR62 you'll know what I meanJoin Date: Aug 2002
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Welcome to Belfast the land that SSR forgot.
we woz doing FOUR million ...plus yours with Primary only until a few years ago!!
Aldergrove ....a better service from nicer people!!
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CR-62? Get some in!
SLA 3C - Now that was a real radar in rain and snow........And setting up the tube with all the knobs under the shutters. Happy, happy days............
SLA 3C - Now that was a real radar in rain and snow........And setting up the tube with all the knobs under the shutters. Happy, happy days............
