Macc Frustration
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We have 98 controllers at MACC
As of last Friday there were 90 ....against a planned figure of 105.
As a simple Northern Lad wouldn't that make our "planes per man x complexity / staff " figure even better?
I agree, TC should be the band 6 Unit......
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Always happy to stand corrected. 90 it is, with 2 more going to be instructors at the college, 2 more with Canada dates this year, maybe more.
Is nobody interested in our new car park requirements?
I appreciate the sentiments of getting behind our union, but we had a very in depth minutes/description of the last conference, and it seems to be very much a lost cause.
Weight of numbers is how it works.
Sad but true.
Solidarity brothers.
Is nobody interested in our new car park requirements?
I appreciate the sentiments of getting behind our union, but we had a very in depth minutes/description of the last conference, and it seems to be very much a lost cause.
Weight of numbers is how it works.
Sad but true.
Solidarity brothers.
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1. Cost of Living WAS factored into the banding of units - hence my comments that regardless of ALL other factors the difference in pay still doesn't make up for the differential.
As for 0530 starts, it's not too bad a deal when you get sprung at 0700. It might not happen to everyone, but it's definitely happened to a few of you at LACC! Anyhoo, with our traffic continuing to climb in the early morning, Finningley due to open and BMI and EZY planning to up early morning services out of NV and NT, 0530 starts could be heading for an ACC near you, if you're in the Manchester area. Maybe that should be coming to an ACC near me!
What has happened is that airpspace has been transferred to units where there is still capacity in terms of ............ staff to obtain the validations
As for Shermanator's obsession with car parks, alot of you lads and lasses don't know you're born. Us with the
bus trip in from Staff West. Still, it'll all be different when they turn that into apron space. Where to put the staff? Warrington has been suggested! It's half way to Wales for crying out loud! Then get Sherm's whining, and we'll need to be in the car park at 0530 for a 0700 start!
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Working Practices, shmactices
It's no real secret that most of the people on 530 starts are back in bed in time for Trisha, and, as has been said, the w.practices were changed countrywide, so its irrelevant really.
Cost of living was not supposed to have been addressed in the last pay talks (I use the word supposed with a dash of sarcasm).
Manchester must have a world record, I'm serious, of the longest distance of a controller's work car park to his actual place of work. Can anyone top a 20/25 min walk? Or a 10 minute bus ride when the drivers see fit to turn up on time? Maybe that's a new thread, but it needs sorting.
It's good to hear that we have the support and goodwill of other units behind us, and I mean that. There are no real axes to grind here with other units, however we do feel like we are being treated like a lesser entity by the suits, and given all the airspace we've taken and made more efficient(S29, EAST, S7 next), given the staff shortages that continue to get worse (see OR above), given the shocking budgetary limitations we have forced on us (no famil trips allowed except to Scotland, but TC can come and have a look round at our gaff, but we aren't allowed the return leg), I hope people can see why we're a bit miffed as we see good money thrown after bad around the rest of NATS, TRM rumoured to have cost a few million (6?), CTC far nicer than any control centre etc etc.
Nice point about Lewis saying we wouoldn't be doing 0530 starts then leaving for the retirement village, think we're on our 3rd GM in as many years now. Nothing good has come from the upper floors for some time now, hopefully this time it might change, but no-one is holding their breath.
The union route has been tried, but the majority rule beats us everytime, in theory a notion such as (just an example-) for one month per year all MACC controllers have to shave their heads would be passed, with consumate ease. Somethings wrong there.
And if you're telling me that Thames Radar can sit in band 5 while Farnborough, Southampton and London City dwindle in Band 1, then I won't believe you're saying it with a straight face. The banding system was a fiasco, pleased the majority, don't get me wrong, I can see the wisdom, albeit twisted, behind it, but I'm not sure any union that can conjure up a scheme like that can be trusted not to do it again.
Why don't we all go on strike and raise hell for the day like les Francaise? Go on, you know you want to..........
Cost of living was not supposed to have been addressed in the last pay talks (I use the word supposed with a dash of sarcasm).
Manchester must have a world record, I'm serious, of the longest distance of a controller's work car park to his actual place of work. Can anyone top a 20/25 min walk? Or a 10 minute bus ride when the drivers see fit to turn up on time? Maybe that's a new thread, but it needs sorting.
It's good to hear that we have the support and goodwill of other units behind us, and I mean that. There are no real axes to grind here with other units, however we do feel like we are being treated like a lesser entity by the suits, and given all the airspace we've taken and made more efficient(S29, EAST, S7 next), given the staff shortages that continue to get worse (see OR above), given the shocking budgetary limitations we have forced on us (no famil trips allowed except to Scotland, but TC can come and have a look round at our gaff, but we aren't allowed the return leg), I hope people can see why we're a bit miffed as we see good money thrown after bad around the rest of NATS, TRM rumoured to have cost a few million (6?), CTC far nicer than any control centre etc etc.
Nice point about Lewis saying we wouoldn't be doing 0530 starts then leaving for the retirement village, think we're on our 3rd GM in as many years now. Nothing good has come from the upper floors for some time now, hopefully this time it might change, but no-one is holding their breath.
The union route has been tried, but the majority rule beats us everytime, in theory a notion such as (just an example-) for one month per year all MACC controllers have to shave their heads would be passed, with consumate ease. Somethings wrong there.
And if you're telling me that Thames Radar can sit in band 5 while Farnborough, Southampton and London City dwindle in Band 1, then I won't believe you're saying it with a straight face. The banding system was a fiasco, pleased the majority, don't get me wrong, I can see the wisdom, albeit twisted, behind it, but I'm not sure any union that can conjure up a scheme like that can be trusted not to do it again.
Why don't we all go on strike and raise hell for the day like les Francaise? Go on, you know you want to..........
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Totally dig your point on the head shaving thing, what if you already shave your head? do you have to shave anything different.....?
actually, thinking about it we should not be putting ideas into the wrong heads
actually, thinking about it we should not be putting ideas into the wrong heads
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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I can fully understand your reluctance to move up here as I didn't want to come here over twenty years ago. However, look on the bright side. We've got a cracking car park, right next to where the front door of NPC is going to be
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Ha ha ha Shermanator. Some absolute gems on this thread my friend. Good work!
I wholeheartedly agree with the car park outrage by the way, never mind this going to Scotland lark. We're being moved slowly northwards that's what it is. A bit of the building at a time.
Cheadle my ****.
Today the car park, next it'll be the rest room moving somewhere up the M6 (Oh let's hope it's Chorley services with *that* coach driver. She's a thirsty girl.......) and the bogs from the 4th floor will be shuffled and flushed all the way to Carlisle.
And we'll still be able to smell them in the ops room.
I wholeheartedly agree with the car park outrage by the way, never mind this going to Scotland lark. We're being moved slowly northwards that's what it is. A bit of the building at a time.
Cheadle my ****.
Today the car park, next it'll be the rest room moving somewhere up the M6 (Oh let's hope it's Chorley services with *that* coach driver. She's a thirsty girl.......) and the bogs from the 4th floor will be shuffled and flushed all the way to Carlisle.
And we'll still be able to smell them in the ops room.
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Junior X,
You guys at TC are in just the position we were in 5 years ago. At that time there was a majority who did, in some cases up to 5 sectors. The fact is that the new system prohibited the ability to get round that many seats. With the best will in the world staff eventually dropped validations in able to maintain competency. The situation is that we now have around 30% who hold 3 or more ( 2 is the Minimum). I would suggest that when management ask you to validate on new sectors your question is "fine-which one do I give up"? I believe even MACC are now going down the route that to do the whole room is impossible. As long as you have the minimum there is nothing they can do and there are no prizes for the folks who think it clever to keep on too many. If people really are struggling to get time on sectors,give them up.
As for 0530s-they are only required because the nights are at an absolute minimum with 4 out of the 5 area groups working 2 hours on 1 hour off on BOTH nights. Remember no SRATCO exemption and a 2 man operation at LACC at all times. I'm sure if the staffing on nights were reduced in a similar manner across all the area units the 0530s could easily be arranged-and don't believe all you hear about the 0700 departures-at Xmas maybe but not as a norm.
Is the car parking the fault of NATS or the airport owners?
Should Thames radar staff be band 6?? I really can't help but think that there are lots of people who were unsuccesful at LATCC and are now at MACC who believe that LACC have not changed in the way the unit was 5 or even 10 years ago-well it has and significantly.
I readily agree that the whole move has been handled appallingly and sincerely hope that the new GM has the ability to soften the impact for all involved.
Junior X-sector 29 was transferred well before the banding was introduced and MACC east handles significantly less traffic than it could as LACC regularly re-route traffic away from it and give it to the mil-especially at night!!!!!!!
You guys at TC are in just the position we were in 5 years ago. At that time there was a majority who did, in some cases up to 5 sectors. The fact is that the new system prohibited the ability to get round that many seats. With the best will in the world staff eventually dropped validations in able to maintain competency. The situation is that we now have around 30% who hold 3 or more ( 2 is the Minimum). I would suggest that when management ask you to validate on new sectors your question is "fine-which one do I give up"? I believe even MACC are now going down the route that to do the whole room is impossible. As long as you have the minimum there is nothing they can do and there are no prizes for the folks who think it clever to keep on too many. If people really are struggling to get time on sectors,give them up.
As for 0530s-they are only required because the nights are at an absolute minimum with 4 out of the 5 area groups working 2 hours on 1 hour off on BOTH nights. Remember no SRATCO exemption and a 2 man operation at LACC at all times. I'm sure if the staffing on nights were reduced in a similar manner across all the area units the 0530s could easily be arranged-and don't believe all you hear about the 0700 departures-at Xmas maybe but not as a norm.
Is the car parking the fault of NATS or the airport owners?
Should Thames radar staff be band 6?? I really can't help but think that there are lots of people who were unsuccesful at LATCC and are now at MACC who believe that LACC have not changed in the way the unit was 5 or even 10 years ago-well it has and significantly.
I readily agree that the whole move has been handled appallingly and sincerely hope that the new GM has the ability to soften the impact for all involved.
Junior X-sector 29 was transferred well before the banding was introduced and MACC east handles significantly less traffic than it could as LACC regularly re-route traffic away from it and give it to the mil-especially at night!!!!!!!
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MACC east handles significantly less traffic than it could as LACC regularly re-route traffic away from it and give it to the mil-especially at night!!!!!!!
Let's face it, you give the traffic to the Mil earlier then you'd give it to MACC, so it's in your own best interests too.
Hats off to London Mil for working civil traffic on less than a civil wage. It's not what most of 'em signed up for I'll bet!
As for 0530 starts, how often have you worked the full shift? Be honest now
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250, points taken on board, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate on this thread and trying to put myself in the shoes of the guys and gals at MACC. I for one think that they are being treated pretty shoddily by management, and that a lot of people down sarf just don't seem to care about it. As has been said before, we are all part of a group of people doing area services for NATS, shouldn't we have a common interest in each others issues?
Anyway my question at the end of my last point about hypothetically returned airspace from MACC remains - would you accept band 4 pay??
Anyway my question at the end of my last point about hypothetically returned airspace from MACC remains - would you accept band 4 pay??
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0530 starts at LACC. So far done about 10 to 15 of these. 0700 departures? 2, both recently. 0900 to 1000 departures? About 4. Last 30 minutes departure or stay to the end, definately 5, maybe more, always during the summer shedules.
How about the late afternoons we do? I do at least one of these a month. Again recently its been a great early go but in the summer, never before 2230, a few stays to the end on the 2300 finish, and twice stayed to beyond 2330 on the midnight.
Whats an early go on nights?
MACC isn't the only place that is struggling for staff - EVERYWHERE IS. The LACC staffing numbers are set to FALL over the next year with the number of retirements and deployments against projected validations. Also our figures for staffing included all those who sit in offices and offer 4 days a month work in the radar environment to keep current, there are quite a few of these.
All that said my personal views are that it all stinks. I very happily voted against the banding system, but more on the terms and conditions side as obviously the money wasn't an issue for me. I did feel that the "divide and conquer" which seems to be happenning would progress quicker as a result, and that makes me sad. We all do a similar job, and very few had a choice of where its done. We all do busy sessions, we all enjoy the quieter moments, and we all get perks, so why can we not all be paid the same? I do think however that an accommodation/location payment be paid in accordance with the average house price in the area (30 mins travel distance) each place of work is located, but that this is the only difference. Talk to controllers that have moved centres and guage their opinions, and not the ones that worked ScATCC, MACC, AC or TC 10/15 years ago, those that have recently relocated in the last few years and find that it is all complex at all places for entirely different reasons.
What we need to do is club together and get the banding system abolished totally. All it has done is worsen the morale at the stations at Band 4 and below, and made the Band 5 units sit fat, dumb and unconcerned at the top. We would defend ourselves with facts, but no-one can be ar$ed to find them out. If you want to get us ALL onto your side, then rather than just say you're worse off, prove it by putting the full figures for staffing, movements and complexity on here for all to see. It will be a start and hopefully more and more people will begin to support your case. Threaten us with a move downwards to Band 4, and we'll all listen and do something to get a change.
My final points are to never trust anyone who says "you are eligable for this but it will never happen". If its there to be used, then eventually it will be. Somewhere along the line, especially with the figures for traffic movements set to rocket, more staff will be needed earlier and the 0530's will be enjoyed by everyone. The last pay changes have screwed us all in more ways than we could have thought, and with the "final destinations" being progressed then it will only get worse. The rumours are now out at LACC for single manning to be negotiated on nights to cover sickness, but thats a different thread. I feel sorry for those at MACC with the pending move northwards, but there is nothing that can be done about that unfortunately. However the topic of car parking can be delt with. How they can justify making staff get in so much earlier before work beats me, they should start paying you from the time you park your car. Surely there must be some European ruling on this, and if not I'm sure the European Courts would be a place to get your case heard. I would say that having to park your car within 30 minutes of your start time is reasonable, so why not just do that, and if you are all collectively late then NATS will have to listen.
JuniorX - so you really expect a sensible reply to that question?
Funny how all the replies so far are from those at centres, I take it that the airports are still too enraged to join in. Maybe this should be moved to the NATS forum.....
I'll go sit in the corner now.
How about the late afternoons we do? I do at least one of these a month. Again recently its been a great early go but in the summer, never before 2230, a few stays to the end on the 2300 finish, and twice stayed to beyond 2330 on the midnight.
Whats an early go on nights?
MACC isn't the only place that is struggling for staff - EVERYWHERE IS. The LACC staffing numbers are set to FALL over the next year with the number of retirements and deployments against projected validations. Also our figures for staffing included all those who sit in offices and offer 4 days a month work in the radar environment to keep current, there are quite a few of these.
All that said my personal views are that it all stinks. I very happily voted against the banding system, but more on the terms and conditions side as obviously the money wasn't an issue for me. I did feel that the "divide and conquer" which seems to be happenning would progress quicker as a result, and that makes me sad. We all do a similar job, and very few had a choice of where its done. We all do busy sessions, we all enjoy the quieter moments, and we all get perks, so why can we not all be paid the same? I do think however that an accommodation/location payment be paid in accordance with the average house price in the area (30 mins travel distance) each place of work is located, but that this is the only difference. Talk to controllers that have moved centres and guage their opinions, and not the ones that worked ScATCC, MACC, AC or TC 10/15 years ago, those that have recently relocated in the last few years and find that it is all complex at all places for entirely different reasons.
What we need to do is club together and get the banding system abolished totally. All it has done is worsen the morale at the stations at Band 4 and below, and made the Band 5 units sit fat, dumb and unconcerned at the top. We would defend ourselves with facts, but no-one can be ar$ed to find them out. If you want to get us ALL onto your side, then rather than just say you're worse off, prove it by putting the full figures for staffing, movements and complexity on here for all to see. It will be a start and hopefully more and more people will begin to support your case. Threaten us with a move downwards to Band 4, and we'll all listen and do something to get a change.
My final points are to never trust anyone who says "you are eligable for this but it will never happen". If its there to be used, then eventually it will be. Somewhere along the line, especially with the figures for traffic movements set to rocket, more staff will be needed earlier and the 0530's will be enjoyed by everyone. The last pay changes have screwed us all in more ways than we could have thought, and with the "final destinations" being progressed then it will only get worse. The rumours are now out at LACC for single manning to be negotiated on nights to cover sickness, but thats a different thread. I feel sorry for those at MACC with the pending move northwards, but there is nothing that can be done about that unfortunately. However the topic of car parking can be delt with. How they can justify making staff get in so much earlier before work beats me, they should start paying you from the time you park your car. Surely there must be some European ruling on this, and if not I'm sure the European Courts would be a place to get your case heard. I would say that having to park your car within 30 minutes of your start time is reasonable, so why not just do that, and if you are all collectively late then NATS will have to listen.
JuniorX - so you really expect a sensible reply to that question?
Funny how all the replies so far are from those at centres, I take it that the airports are still too enraged to join in. Maybe this should be moved to the NATS forum.....
I'll go sit in the corner now.
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250 take your point that a lot of people arrived at macc as products of the shocking latcc training program and have such do not have a high opinion of the london setup. You suggest that lots has changed at lacc over the last 10 years, well the same is true at macc. we are no longer the tiny breakaway unit we once were. in 2004, excluding the ocean, macc moved more flights than scottish centre with 60 less controllers! the whole point of this thread is not entirely money, it is some recognition from our band 5 chums that the task we perform is essentially the same as theirs.
oh yes and i hardly think it is a significant amount of traffic that cuts the corner with the military! i am valid on east and admit that it has its sleepy moments, however resent the implication that your altruism dramatically reduces our workload! Doncaster international opens in March wich at opening will add a minimum of 40 flights a day with projections of significantly more by the end of the summer. and im sure it wont be long before EGNX outbounds will be forced to file through the east sector to avoid tc and clacton flow.
seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent, just before finishing tho i should point out that we are all colleagues and should not be bickering, back stabbing, belittleing and more. we should all be pulling in the same direction for better pay and conditions for all nats employees accross the board. Band 1 to band 5
5 miles baby, watch this space for the figures used by the union, they tell a compelling story! apprecaite yr sympathy tho, we need more like you...
oh yes and i hardly think it is a significant amount of traffic that cuts the corner with the military! i am valid on east and admit that it has its sleepy moments, however resent the implication that your altruism dramatically reduces our workload! Doncaster international opens in March wich at opening will add a minimum of 40 flights a day with projections of significantly more by the end of the summer. and im sure it wont be long before EGNX outbounds will be forced to file through the east sector to avoid tc and clacton flow.
seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent, just before finishing tho i should point out that we are all colleagues and should not be bickering, back stabbing, belittleing and more. we should all be pulling in the same direction for better pay and conditions for all nats employees accross the board. Band 1 to band 5
5 miles baby, watch this space for the figures used by the union, they tell a compelling story! apprecaite yr sympathy tho, we need more like you...
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5 Miles Baby,
I agree with what you have to say, and I remember your comments on banding from the million page bitchfest at the time of the ballot. As for Ts&Cs, they're evening up across the land, we also have late afternoon shifts to contend with, although I've never been kept later than 2300 (there's the potential for 0100!)
As for movement figures, they're available from the NATS intranet. I don't think it would be wise to put them on here, as the pages are Company Confidential. Can't quite remember where they're hidden, but will try and find them to tell you where they are. That said, Prospect BEC claim that the figures are all made up, despite coming from the HCS database. They won't provide the accurate figures. They MUST have them secreted away somewhere, otherwise they couldn't make these claims.
Not sure about ScACC having 60 more ATCOs than MACC. What I do know is that we have 90 operational ATCOs, 85% of OR, and that number isn't giong to increase in any kind of hurry.
I'd be interested to know how the other centres are for staff as a percentage of OR.
I agree with what you have to say, and I remember your comments on banding from the million page bitchfest at the time of the ballot. As for Ts&Cs, they're evening up across the land, we also have late afternoon shifts to contend with, although I've never been kept later than 2300 (there's the potential for 0100!)
As for movement figures, they're available from the NATS intranet. I don't think it would be wise to put them on here, as the pages are Company Confidential. Can't quite remember where they're hidden, but will try and find them to tell you where they are. That said, Prospect BEC claim that the figures are all made up, despite coming from the HCS database. They won't provide the accurate figures. They MUST have them secreted away somewhere, otherwise they couldn't make these claims.
Not sure about ScACC having 60 more ATCOs than MACC. What I do know is that we have 90 operational ATCOs, 85% of OR, and that number isn't giong to increase in any kind of hurry.
I'd be interested to know how the other centres are for staff as a percentage of OR.
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5miles ....nice one!! Some of the wisest words spoken on here for a long time ..... just wish you could convert some of your colleagues to an equally fair point of view .......
Us at Manchester have always said both you and LACC and TC should be paid more as it is expensive where you live. Yes it is expensive in places around Machester, but there are some cheap places as well (look where up a bit ...down a bit lives for example
) an option that isn't available to you lot down there!
Our problem was always the model.......
The figures from last year on the NATS web page are below ...
NATS Figures
I'll let someone else do the maths as I'm just a simple Northern Lad ...anyway I'm too tired having just walked back to my car from work .....
just wish you could convert some of your colleagues to an equally fair point of view ....... Us at Manchester have always said both you and LACC and TC should be paid more as it is expensive where you live. Yes it is expensive in places around Machester, but there are some cheap places as well (look where up a bit ...down a bit lives for example
) an option that isn't available to you lot down there!Our problem was always the model.......
The figures from last year on the NATS web page are below ...
NATS Figures
I'll let someone else do the maths as I'm just a simple Northern Lad ...anyway I'm too tired having just walked back to my car from work .....
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wall brick head against/ rearrange
ok so we have the figures there, all we need know is to find out the number of controllers per centre, and the exact super duper all singing all dancing complexity ratio, and we have ourselves exactly what the union couldn't manage to find out.
As an aside, the bitchfest about banding from last year is a quality 43 page read if you have no plans this afternoon, and have your feet in a bowl of water after the long walk back to your car post AM shift.
I'll do the starter for ten, MACC 548,366/90 = 6093
Question for anyone who knows, does the term "TC" include every unit that works in that room, crosswords and novels included, or just the area/TMA control lads n lasses?
Thankyou in advance, my colleagues.
I would like to start a campaign for 5 days in lieu a year for our crappy carpark situation, then I'd stop moaning. Oh, and I'd like a speed camera on Porter's way aimed specifically at japanese sports cars, and bright blue golfs.
Avanti!
As an aside, the bitchfest about banding from last year is a quality 43 page read if you have no plans this afternoon, and have your feet in a bowl of water after the long walk back to your car post AM shift.
I'll do the starter for ten, MACC 548,366/90 = 6093
Question for anyone who knows, does the term "TC" include every unit that works in that room, crosswords and novels included, or just the area/TMA control lads n lasses?
Thankyou in advance, my colleagues.
I would like to start a campaign for 5 days in lieu a year for our crappy carpark situation, then I'd stop moaning. Oh, and I'd like a speed camera on Porter's way aimed specifically at japanese sports cars, and bright blue golfs.
Avanti!
Last edited by Shermanator; 22nd Jan 2005 at 14:44.
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Sherman sorry to be a pain but we went up 9% last year to 586,289 movements and our staffing level is 90. Last year we had double the increase of traffic compared to our chums at LACC and TC. So we worked 6514 planes per man.
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ooops
sorry about that
It's post AM shift fatigue i think, coupled with the added distraction of trying to download the paris hilton video.
That last bit was a joke!
It's post AM shift fatigue i think, coupled with the added distraction of trying to download the paris hilton video.
That last bit was a joke!
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thanks ali bongo for your real estate assessment! i choose not to rise to your bait and sit happy in my cheap house on the moral high ground.
i would like to point out that 3 times(what most mortguage companies will give you) the average controller salary is only between 120000 and 180000 which prices all but those who have already benifited greatly from the housing boom out of a large chunk of the north west and the south of england housing market. My mcdonalds quip aside, i assume there are nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen etc in abundance down south. do they all live in trailerparks and campsites?once again we are loosing sight of our original thread and any possibility of solidarity by bickering amongst ourselves. the only reason i have bothered to make any posts is to try and gain some understanding from folk once called friends from who we recieve so little sympathy and so much indifference. particularly when everyone in the company who does not live in the south is united in agreeing with your plea for a cost of living allowance.
if only we could fight the company with as much enthusiasm as we seem to fight eachother
i would like to point out that 3 times(what most mortguage companies will give you) the average controller salary is only between 120000 and 180000 which prices all but those who have already benifited greatly from the housing boom out of a large chunk of the north west and the south of england housing market. My mcdonalds quip aside, i assume there are nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen etc in abundance down south. do they all live in trailerparks and campsites?once again we are loosing sight of our original thread and any possibility of solidarity by bickering amongst ourselves. the only reason i have bothered to make any posts is to try and gain some understanding from folk once called friends from who we recieve so little sympathy and so much indifference. particularly when everyone in the company who does not live in the south is united in agreeing with your plea for a cost of living allowance.
if only we could fight the company with as much enthusiasm as we seem to fight eachother
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1,771,875/330 = 5369. But that does include LAS's and part-timers (see below). And our positions are ALWAYS manned by 2 people, not one like everywhere else with a shared co-ordinator.
A very rough guess is that we have around 330 controllers at Swanwick working in the ops room. I got that figure by working out how many are on our watch and multiplying by 5 (watch balancing has just occurred to make all watches almost even again). I have no idea how many 'operational' staff work outside the ops room. This figure does include all the LAS's as well as the controllers, and for a ballpark figure, we have 5 part-timers and I think 2 off on maternity leave. So an average guess of 300 controllers available for any shift basically, but obviously this figure cannot be used in the model.
However, if we were to open ALL the available sectors at the same time we would need 63 staff to occupy the seats, and then a further 25 on breaks to enable no-one goes out of hours, so thats 88 staff, and we have 67 on our watch, which is just under 25% understaffed. Things will only get worse when the West End increases from 5 to 7 sectors this year, which is another 4 bums in seats and 2 more needed on breaks. Working out that the office staff do 4 days a month out of 18 average, then it takes 4.5 office staff to make 1 controller, so you could probably only add 3 more controllers to the amount we have.
My biggest problem with the model is that if it looks like either LTCC or LACC are falling, they will just introduce a slightly modified complexity component to make sure we don't. You know they would too......thats why we need to change sooner rather than later, or our inter-NATS relationships will fall further apart.
A very rough guess is that we have around 330 controllers at Swanwick working in the ops room. I got that figure by working out how many are on our watch and multiplying by 5 (watch balancing has just occurred to make all watches almost even again). I have no idea how many 'operational' staff work outside the ops room. This figure does include all the LAS's as well as the controllers, and for a ballpark figure, we have 5 part-timers and I think 2 off on maternity leave. So an average guess of 300 controllers available for any shift basically, but obviously this figure cannot be used in the model.
However, if we were to open ALL the available sectors at the same time we would need 63 staff to occupy the seats, and then a further 25 on breaks to enable no-one goes out of hours, so thats 88 staff, and we have 67 on our watch, which is just under 25% understaffed. Things will only get worse when the West End increases from 5 to 7 sectors this year, which is another 4 bums in seats and 2 more needed on breaks. Working out that the office staff do 4 days a month out of 18 average, then it takes 4.5 office staff to make 1 controller, so you could probably only add 3 more controllers to the amount we have.
My biggest problem with the model is that if it looks like either LTCC or LACC are falling, they will just introduce a slightly modified complexity component to make sure we don't. You know they would too......thats why we need to change sooner rather than later, or our inter-NATS relationships will fall further apart.
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Having just lifted the figures that Prospect used as the number of votes at the last conference (1 controller - 1 vote) - they should be accurate - ish,
its LACC (490)
TC (336)
ScOACC (220)
MACC ( 110) although there is only 90 so I suppose everyone elses might be slightly off as well ....
Happy adding / dividing and taking away everyone
its LACC (490)
TC (336)
ScOACC (220)
MACC ( 110) although there is only 90 so I suppose everyone elses might be slightly off as well ....
Happy adding / dividing and taking away everyone