LHR Departure Regulation??
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LHR Departure Regulation??
A question for our friends in ATC.
Being employed in Operations Control of a major British airline we suffer heavily when LHR introduces LVP's. Our biggest problem (ATC wise) is start up delays as we are responsible for coordinating outbound ATC slots.
Picture this example. If we have a delayed slot of approx 30 minutes, when there are 30-40 mins start up delays, there is a high chance of this slot being missed. We apply for a new slot and get a further 30 mins delay. We have therefore missed our place in the start-up queue and a the new 30 mins delayed slot also stands a high chance of being missed again.
An easy solution to this problem would be a LHR departures regulation being implemented by CFMU. However, in many years of working with ATC slots I have never seen this restriction. As LHR is the busiest airport in the world, why is this??
Being employed in Operations Control of a major British airline we suffer heavily when LHR introduces LVP's. Our biggest problem (ATC wise) is start up delays as we are responsible for coordinating outbound ATC slots.
Picture this example. If we have a delayed slot of approx 30 minutes, when there are 30-40 mins start up delays, there is a high chance of this slot being missed. We apply for a new slot and get a further 30 mins delay. We have therefore missed our place in the start-up queue and a the new 30 mins delayed slot also stands a high chance of being missed again.
An easy solution to this problem would be a LHR departures regulation being implemented by CFMU. However, in many years of working with ATC slots I have never seen this restriction. As LHR is the busiest airport in the world, why is this??
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This probably seems like splitting hairs and I know it`s not the point your making but let`s get the facts right. LHR is not the busiest airport in the world and isn`t even close. Check out the figures here, it makes interesting reading. http://www.airports.org/traffic/index.html
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Hi B&B,
In the circumstances you describe, I would suggest that the GMP Controller is in the best position to request new CTOTs from the CFMU, as only s/he knows the actual delay, the constraints of the system and is in direct contact with the pilots. Aircraft are dealt with as fairly as possible on a first come first served basis. Having said that we do know the "gamesmanship" that goes on, hence the removal of the right for companies to request RDY messages under delay conditions and thereby jump the queue. After LVPs the CFMU will sometimes issue MDIs on certain routes to allow the system to recover, or even issue a blanket relief from CTOTs altogether for a set time. I would not advocate the CFMU getting involved in tactical EGLL departure regulation, as this needs to be done on a dynamic basis from the Tower. Also of course not all traffic is subject to CFMU regulation. My advice is therefore to leave CTOT requests under delay conditions to ATC.
In the circumstances you describe, I would suggest that the GMP Controller is in the best position to request new CTOTs from the CFMU, as only s/he knows the actual delay, the constraints of the system and is in direct contact with the pilots. Aircraft are dealt with as fairly as possible on a first come first served basis. Having said that we do know the "gamesmanship" that goes on, hence the removal of the right for companies to request RDY messages under delay conditions and thereby jump the queue. After LVPs the CFMU will sometimes issue MDIs on certain routes to allow the system to recover, or even issue a blanket relief from CTOTs altogether for a set time. I would not advocate the CFMU getting involved in tactical EGLL departure regulation, as this needs to be done on a dynamic basis from the Tower. Also of course not all traffic is subject to CFMU regulation. My advice is therefore to leave CTOT requests under delay conditions to ATC.
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Thanks for replies. I usually give the GMP controller a call in order to verify who has responsibility for CTOT's and they usually take over. However, it gets tricky when a regulation downroute is giving 60+ minutes of delay to missed slots. (We all dread LVP's at LHR:eek 
I stand corrected on LHR being the busiest in the world. However, it certainly looks the busiest whenever I have been there!!!!)
I stand corrected on LHR being the busiest in the world. However, it certainly looks the busiest whenever I have been there!!!!)
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Surely we ARE the busiest INTERNATIONAL airport in the world particularly proportional to the number of runways we have (TWO). The likes of Chicago O'Hare may be busier, but most of their traffic is domestic stuff, and they also have access to a significantly greater number of runways (something ridiculous like seven). I'm sure there aren't many airports that do almost 1400 movements between 06:30 and 23:30 (with the exception of one or two early inbounds) on a paltry TWO runways!!! If you don't believe it then come and see it!!!
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Hi JB007
All is same as it always is!! Couldn't make the Ash Bash unfortunately but understand a good night was had by all. A friend of mine that flies for you dropped in recently. I asked him to say hello when he sees you next.
Any comments on my topic?? I know that it doesn't affect you guys but gives us a big headache.
How are things down south! It's about time BC gave you a management or pilot position isn't it???????????????
Cheers
B&B .... huh huh huh
All is same as it always is!! Couldn't make the Ash Bash unfortunately but understand a good night was had by all. A friend of mine that flies for you dropped in recently. I asked him to say hello when he sees you next.
Any comments on my topic?? I know that it doesn't affect you guys but gives us a big headache.
How are things down south! It's about time BC gave you a management or pilot position isn't it???????????????
Cheers
B&B .... huh huh huh
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Hi B+B,
Thanks for the reply.
We avoid most major London Airports and ATC look after us fairly well at STN but STN/LHR is somewhat of a diffrent ball game.!!!!
I saw Tim last night, no problem with the J/seat ride you must organsise it and if you want to pair it up with a trip out of Shoreham somewhere in the PA28 let me know.
I had a SIM ride a few weeks ago at LHR on the B737 - i've got a job flying once i've finished which i'm six feet off the ground about.
Speak to you soon.
Cheers
007
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"My Name is Pussy Galore"
"I must be dreaming"
Thanks for the reply.
We avoid most major London Airports and ATC look after us fairly well at STN but STN/LHR is somewhat of a diffrent ball game.!!!!
I saw Tim last night, no problem with the J/seat ride you must organsise it and if you want to pair it up with a trip out of Shoreham somewhere in the PA28 let me know.
I had a SIM ride a few weeks ago at LHR on the B737 - i've got a job flying once i've finished which i'm six feet off the ground about.
Speak to you soon.
Cheers
007
------------------
"My Name is Pussy Galore"
"I must be dreaming"
