Do controllers have exchange visits?
Thread Starter
Controversial, moi?
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: UK
Do controllers have exchange visits?
As pilots we are prvileged? to experience first hand many variations on the same theme of controlling.
LHR and the UK are generally acknowledged as being among the best but it occurred to me, having visited ATC as a pilot and learned some quite useful information, that if say CDG controllers visited say LHR it might prove beneficial.
Do exchange visits happen?
LHR and the UK are generally acknowledged as being among the best but it occurred to me, having visited ATC as a pilot and learned some quite useful information, that if say CDG controllers visited say LHR it might prove beneficial.
Do exchange visits happen?
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
MM....
Had a controller from PARIS sit next to me for a morning duty at LATCC. Durring a (particularly good) lunch afterwards he explained that if he and his colleagues had to put up with LATCC equipment, they would have gone on strike long ago.
As for UK based controllers visiting abroad, or even other UK units, well it's rare. For my own part I've found that if you do take the trouble to arrange a visit (usually it's only a phone call after all) the people there are more than happy to show you round, plug in etc etc.
The trouble is here in the UK we are desperately short of ATCO's and time off is at a premium. Visit's elsewhere aren't exactly discouraged by management, but they aren't exactly encouraged either, and certainly not in work time. This also goes for the Fam flight "scheme".
Contrast this with the USA. Scott Voigt will correct this, but as I recall, Fam Flights and visits to other ATC units count as DUTY time, even if you take them on your days off.
Makes a Trans-Atlantic fam flight worthwhile doesn't it? Anyway, you can always learn something
Now that The Airline Group are involved in the running of NATS I hope this will change. Certainly access to fam flights shouldbe more widely available, with less hassle. Or am I being naive? I hope not.
Rgds BEX
Had a controller from PARIS sit next to me for a morning duty at LATCC. Durring a (particularly good) lunch afterwards he explained that if he and his colleagues had to put up with LATCC equipment, they would have gone on strike long ago.
As for UK based controllers visiting abroad, or even other UK units, well it's rare. For my own part I've found that if you do take the trouble to arrange a visit (usually it's only a phone call after all) the people there are more than happy to show you round, plug in etc etc.
The trouble is here in the UK we are desperately short of ATCO's and time off is at a premium. Visit's elsewhere aren't exactly discouraged by management, but they aren't exactly encouraged either, and certainly not in work time. This also goes for the Fam flight "scheme".
Contrast this with the USA. Scott Voigt will correct this, but as I recall, Fam Flights and visits to other ATC units count as DUTY time, even if you take them on your days off.
Makes a Trans-Atlantic fam flight worthwhile doesn't it? Anyway, you can always learn something
Now that The Airline Group are involved in the running of NATS I hope this will change. Certainly access to fam flights shouldbe more widely available, with less hassle. Or am I being naive? I hope not.
Rgds BEX
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
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From: Berkshire, UK
I think one of the problems is "do I really want to visit another ATC facility on my day off when I could be at home?" Answer "NO"!! It's probably the same reason why we see so few pilots at work... and I don't blame them.
Thread Starter
Controversial, moi?
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From: UK
Bexil160
Thanks for an interesting reply. I think exchange visits must be of benefit. Watching how anybody does a similar job always throws up variations on a theme.
Did your CDG express any opinion about the traffic you guys handle? Specifically at LHR when we are regularly spaced at 2.5 miles (vortex permitting) it makes me smile at other airfields when the controller asks you to slow because you are only 5 miles behind the one in front! I recall being made to go-around in a 747 at CCS a few years back because we were only 3.5 miles behind the 737 just touching down - completely unnecessary.
With regard to famil flights I have been only too pleased to have you guys/gals on the flight it can only be beneficial. I hope it becomes more common.
Thanks for an interesting reply. I think exchange visits must be of benefit. Watching how anybody does a similar job always throws up variations on a theme.
Did your CDG express any opinion about the traffic you guys handle? Specifically at LHR when we are regularly spaced at 2.5 miles (vortex permitting) it makes me smile at other airfields when the controller asks you to slow because you are only 5 miles behind the one in front! I recall being made to go-around in a 747 at CCS a few years back because we were only 3.5 miles behind the 737 just touching down - completely unnecessary.
With regard to famil flights I have been only too pleased to have you guys/gals on the flight it can only be beneficial. I hope it becomes more common.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
MM...
HD makes a valid point, especially since "morale" ain't tops at the moment (Still haven't got my complete AUGUST roster yet!!!
)
The French have a unique outlook on Aviation, and life in general come to that. I'll say no more
Rgds BEX
HD makes a valid point, especially since "morale" ain't tops at the moment (Still haven't got my complete AUGUST roster yet!!!
)The French have a unique outlook on Aviation, and life in general come to that. I'll say no more
Rgds BEX
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Hampshire UK
I still make the effort to visit overseas facilities. Have been to Amsterdam, Paris CDG, CFMU Brussels, and Chicago Tower and TRACON (mindblowing!). Have learned worthwhile information in all locations, and it is always interesting to see different types of kit. During my short career in ATSSD I also visited a wide selection of ATC facilities in the UK. I think it helps to develop a broader outlook of other folk's problems, and not be so parochial as many air traffickers are unfortunately. Always a joy to chat to fellow controllers; wherever they are in the world, they all seem to be on exactly the same wavelength!
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From: Canada
In Canada we're supposed to get a fam flight every 3 years, every second one of those can be long range (transatlantic). I visited LATCC 3 years ago and spent a pleasant few hours there meeting the likes of Colin Pain and Terry Huckle!
These fams are on our days of work and you get 3 days (2 nights). If you want to extend it longer for a holiday, as I did, you are able to do that but must be on the flight on a work (paid) day.
This should all be past tense as I'm not sure what the policy is now!!
Cheers
Coast
These fams are on our days of work and you get 3 days (2 nights). If you want to extend it longer for a holiday, as I did, you are able to do that but must be on the flight on a work (paid) day.
This should all be past tense as I'm not sure what the policy is now!!
Cheers
Coast
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Near Stalyvegas
At EGCC, we have a "Watch Liason Visit". One per watch per year.
Visits so far...LATCC, NERC, SCATCC, EGNT, EGPH, EIDW.. Lately, EDDM.
Great "bonding" [P.U.] but also "interesting"
As an "individual", IF I go anywhere either on hols or officially, I "try" and see the facility. [Sad, I know, but I'm like that]
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
Visits so far...LATCC, NERC, SCATCC, EGNT, EGPH, EIDW.. Lately, EDDM.
Great "bonding" [P.U.] but also "interesting"
As an "individual", IF I go anywhere either on hols or officially, I "try" and see the facility. [Sad, I know, but I'm like that]
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,155
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Like the man said <G>, we get to do some facility familiarizations on duty time here if we can get the time off from the facility. That in itself is rather difficult most of the time.
We get to do familiarization flights on duty time now and only on duty time. That sounds great, but it is a catch 22 in that if you can't be spared from the facility, then you can't get the fam flight. You can no longer do any kind of fams on your scheduled days off.
I have been VERY lucky in that I have been able to take vacation time and do a lot of traveling to other countries and have been able to then get duty time to visit the ATC facilities in the areas that I was in. I have always found it quite interesting and enjoyable. I want to be able to do some more of it too, but this year it just didn't work out. Maybe next year <G>.
NATCA has always thought that this is very important and has been trying to work out a controller exchange program. The FAA has had NO inclination to agree to this, so we are going it without their help. As far as I know, we are working with the French right now to establish a program, and if it is successfull, I would LOVE to see other countries join in... It would be somewhat like a student exchange program where you get hosted by a family. We are proposing the same thing... We can all learn from each other <G>... However, I don't want to just bring the arrivals into the stacks <G>...
regards
We get to do familiarization flights on duty time now and only on duty time. That sounds great, but it is a catch 22 in that if you can't be spared from the facility, then you can't get the fam flight. You can no longer do any kind of fams on your scheduled days off.
I have been VERY lucky in that I have been able to take vacation time and do a lot of traveling to other countries and have been able to then get duty time to visit the ATC facilities in the areas that I was in. I have always found it quite interesting and enjoyable. I want to be able to do some more of it too, but this year it just didn't work out. Maybe next year <G>.
NATCA has always thought that this is very important and has been trying to work out a controller exchange program. The FAA has had NO inclination to agree to this, so we are going it without their help. As far as I know, we are working with the French right now to establish a program, and if it is successfull, I would LOVE to see other countries join in... It would be somewhat like a student exchange program where you get hosted by a family. We are proposing the same thing... We can all learn from each other <G>... However, I don't want to just bring the arrivals into the stacks <G>...
regards
