Eghi / Eghh

[tribekey]

Here's one for the pot; is a combined Southampton / Bournemouth approach on the cards to be run from Swanwick?
It would seem to make sense if all parties could get together.

[bmb7jiw]

Bournemouth is not a NATS airport currently, so until that happens definitely not!
Swanwick deals with the more high level stuff, they dont do any approach work currently and wont be doing until LATC (Terminal Control) moves down from West Drayton. Even then I dont see EGHH/EGHI being busy enough to justify it.

bmb7jiw

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Commonsense is rarely a factor in such decisions... otherwise Northolt would have been run from Heathrow Approach 40 years ago.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Wouldn't be surprised if the TC relocation brings EGHI into the fold. They and farnboring are currently the only sarf of england NATS airports to run their own approach. I suspect it makes sense from a manpower point of view to have a big melting pot of approach controllers in the one place. I think the chances of HH being involved are significantly less due to the obvious already mentioned and that of radar coverage. The watchman in use at HI has some poor coverage over bournemouth way (or at least it used to !)

[5milesbaby]

A little more into the pot then, how long before Solent Zone gets more airspace ie part of N866 upto FL100 down towards ASPEN?

[ebenezer]

Wouldn't be surprised if the TC relocation brings EGHI into the fold. They and farnboring are currently the only sarf of england NATS airports to run their own approach

Sorry Vlad, but apart from your spelling, your information is also totally incorrect.

The NATS units at Birmingham and Manchester both have approach radar on site. If by "England" you really do mean "England" then that's it as far as current NATS units are concerned although of course in Wales, Cardiff is a stand-alone radar unit, in Northern Ireland, so is Belfast Intl., and in Scotland, so are Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow.

As for Southampton moving to Swanwick, well it might seem logical but first consider why BAA would agree to pay for Band 5 ATCO 2s providing the approach radar from Swanwick when all they're currently paying for are Band 1 ATCO 3s at Southampton...

So no cost benefit - and difficult to see any tangible operational benefit (a primary and secondary radar feed from the NAS computer into Southampton would adequately serve Southampton and Bournemouth, and would also provide conflict alert for the guys operating Solent).

[1261]

I don't think that even the most optimistic southerner could contend that BB or CC were darn sarf, ebenezer.

[ebenezer]

Oops I see - sorry, not up to speed with cockney rhyming slang...

My other comments however, still stand.

[Gonzo]

Would Southampton be charged more though?

Surely the Approach ATCOs would then be paid by Swanwick (NERL) rather than Airports (NSL), so it might actually reduce the fee come contract renewal time.

[ebenezer]

The arrangement would be similar to London City and Luton - NATS Airports pays NATS En-route for the approach radar services and this is in turn, funded from the contract price with the airport.

Technically, if NATS Airports was willing to absorb the additional cost of ATCO 2s at a Band 5 unit providing the service, yes it's feasible.

But given NATS Airports' new commercialism, it's unlikely.

One 'wild card' is that the Single European Sky (SES) initiative actually sees all air traffic control provision being done through direct charges on the users i.e. aircraft operators.

Therefore, if this became standard practice under SES, it would be the actual cost per flight that dictated where the service was provided from and it's probable that the cost would somehow be 'lost' in the overall Eurocontrol route charges protocol and so be transparent to the aircraft operators.

All very ....

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

HD, some of us would have preferred running Heathrow from Northolt.

[VectorLine]

Wouldn't be surprised if the TC relocation brings EGHI into the fold. They and farnboring are currently the only sarf of england NATS airports to run their own approach

Manston (EGMH) does it's own APC

[lobby]

EGMH is not a NATS unit !

[BEXIL160]

Manston (EGMH) does it's own APC

I wish it would

Rgds BEX

[Vlad the Impaler]

sorry guys and gals, it appears I no speak de english very good. so here it is in big letters. I was talking about airfields in the south of england, and specifically those operated by NATS.......I hope that clears it up !!

[ebenezer]

Yeh, very sorry Vlad my mistake: as I said earlier, I'm not up to speed with cockney rhyming slang...

But I still don't see NATS paying Band 5 ATCO 2s to provide the Solent Radar service unless the 'unit' also takes some delegated airspace from Swanwick (cf. Cardiff).

[Vlad the Impaler]

I see what you are saying but also bear in mind that a TC approach controller could be cross valid at HI with any other and so this reduces the overall number of controllers required as they can chop and change to cover other airports as they do now between SS and KK for instance. Don't tell me that solent approach is less busy than Luton and they do that at TC (read any good books lately lads ?). Lots of Thames radar controllers knocking around TC looking for another validation. Bums already on seats. I'm sure that the overriding vision would see all our airports tower only with all approach functions carried out by the happy families at the centres.
We will see..............

[Jerricho]

Lots of Thames radar controllers knocking around TC looking for another validation.

I hear that dinky little Heathrow approach cell is short of some bodies . Seriously though, has there been any talk of LL guys doing Thames/SVFR duties other than night shifts?

[Gonzo]

They do already, don't they?

[Northerner]

Heathrow APC do SVFR at night.

There are currently Heathrow controllers training to do SVFR in the day. I'm not sure how many though, but I know it is happening.

Not sure about them training onto Thames though.