5 Watch system - SRATCOH compliant - not!
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5 Watch system - SRATCOH compliant - not!
Well, here's a grenade to lob! The crux of this issue is the requirement for three 60 hour "rest" periods within a thirty day period.
The important part of the legislation are the words "within ANY (my emphasis) 30 day period....) SRG have confirmed that if the start of that 30 day period falls during one of these 60 hour "rest" periods, then that period doesn't count towards the 3.
Now taking a typical 5 watch system of MMAADDOOOO or MMAANNSOOO, then taking a 30 day period commencing on the THIRD rest day, it will be seen that there are only TWO 60 hour rest periods!
I'll leave you to draw the bar charts!
Any SRG PPruners out there?
[This message has been edited by Data Dad (edited 27 August 2000).]
The important part of the legislation are the words "within ANY (my emphasis) 30 day period....) SRG have confirmed that if the start of that 30 day period falls during one of these 60 hour "rest" periods, then that period doesn't count towards the 3.
Now taking a typical 5 watch system of MMAADDOOOO or MMAANNSOOO, then taking a 30 day period commencing on the THIRD rest day, it will be seen that there are only TWO 60 hour rest periods!
I'll leave you to draw the bar charts!
Any SRG PPruners out there?
[This message has been edited by Data Dad (edited 27 August 2000).]
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I can only defer to those who actually understand ALL the implications of any watch-keeping system. Just a question - does the LATCC en-route pattern of AAOMMNNSOO then AAOMMDDOOO comply? Of course, it is a rare event for anyone to work the "usual" pattern of alternating days and nights - personal preferences and rostering requirements see to that. I hope that the experts will be keeping a very careful eye on the goings-on during OCT next year (if it happens).
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Data Dad, I can't work out what you're getting at, particularly about the beginning of a thiry day period writing off the sixty hour period that it falls within.
I think that you should consider the thirty days as a "sliding 720 hour window" within which the appropriate number of 60 hr periods must occur.
If you do this (I think) the system works.
Consider the pin reinserted, and nothing left to see
Move along now!
I think that you should consider the thirty days as a "sliding 720 hour window" within which the appropriate number of 60 hr periods must occur.
If you do this (I think) the system works.
Consider the pin reinserted, and nothing left to see
Move along now!
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Father Jack, the sliding window is precisely the point I was making - if you write out a continuous repetition of the MMAADDOOOO or mix it up with the MMAANNSOOO which I am led to believe is worked by a major London Airport, then with the sliding window starting on the 3rd rest day, there are only 2 60 hour rest periods in 720 hours(30 days). Pin taken out again? haven't looked at the LATCC version.
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SRG may have confirmed that the first period does not count as a 60 hour break but the corresponding period at the other end of the 720 hour window is also a 60 hour rest period. If the night shift finishes at, say, 7 am on the sleep day then 60 hours rest is accomplished by 7 pm on the second day off. This is the 3rd 60 hour rest period required by the scheme.
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Xorpria, mmm, lets see
using father Jack's sliding window starting on the 3rd rest day gives a pattern of
oommaannsooommaannsooommaannso for 30 days or 720 hours.
At the start "oom" - that's not 60 hours so there are 2 60 hour breaks in the middle and the last one "nso" finishing at 0700? Nope, can't see 60 hours there either! The problem is - you may reach 60 hours by 7pm on your second rest day BUT that is day 31. The leg. says "WITHIN any 30 day period etc.etc"
What's a repeating roster anyway? Never heard of one at my place of honest endeavour.
[This message has been edited by captlcc (edited 29 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by captlcc (edited 29 August 2000).]
using father Jack's sliding window starting on the 3rd rest day gives a pattern of
oommaannsooommaannsooommaannso for 30 days or 720 hours.
At the start "oom" - that's not 60 hours so there are 2 60 hour breaks in the middle and the last one "nso" finishing at 0700? Nope, can't see 60 hours there either! The problem is - you may reach 60 hours by 7pm on your second rest day BUT that is day 31. The leg. says "WITHIN any 30 day period etc.etc"
What's a repeating roster anyway? Never heard of one at my place of honest endeavour.
[This message has been edited by captlcc (edited 29 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by captlcc (edited 29 August 2000).]
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Shazbat- "am I being a bit cynical here, thinking that, for ONCE, SRG might take control of things and "just say no"."
SRG are not remotely concerned at overtime breaking SRATCOH. They are well aware that it is happening but these "fiscally-unconcerned" brethren appear to cave in & accomodate it when instructed to do so- maybe a wrong impression but one which SRG have, unfortunately, allowed to happen. ATCOs who do o/t on these grounds do themselves no favours either- imagine the sympathy & understanding that would be forthcoming if you, God forbid, had a nasty while doing an o/t shift that busted SRATCOH! NOT!!!!!!
Y'all take care now!. My understanding is that you just have to fill in a form and you're covered in their eyes.
SRG are not remotely concerned at overtime breaking SRATCOH. They are well aware that it is happening but these "fiscally-unconcerned" brethren appear to cave in & accomodate it when instructed to do so- maybe a wrong impression but one which SRG have, unfortunately, allowed to happen. ATCOs who do o/t on these grounds do themselves no favours either- imagine the sympathy & understanding that would be forthcoming if you, God forbid, had a nasty while doing an o/t shift that busted SRATCOH! NOT!!!!!!
Y'all take care now!. My understanding is that you just have to fill in a form and you're covered in their eyes.
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Thanks Captlcc, the point I was trying to make is that although the 60 hours cannot be completed within the 720 hour window, it is nonetheless a 60 hour rest period and unless SRG make a similar statement about the period at the end of the window then we must assume that it counts for the purposes of the scheme. I look forward to hearing something to the contrary!
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Well there you go get'em back to wherever .......seems you and I.......and I just wodner....errrr.....wonder.....how many more - have exactly the same opinion : that SRG are in the pockets of NATS management, who can get away with ANYTHING.
Just left to wonder (got it right this time) what the "S" in SRG stands for ??????????
Sorry this is a little "off-topic" guys, but it does need an airing !!
Just left to wonder (got it right this time) what the "S" in SRG stands for ??????????
Sorry this is a little "off-topic" guys, but it does need an airing !!
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Xorpria et al, have today checked exactly what we were told by SRG. As well as the bit about the start, they also said that if the 30days finish in the middle of a 60 hour rest period (ie: not yet completed the 60 hours when the 30 days/720 hours is up) then that one doesn't count either! So my original argument still stands.. By the way, for all SRG bashers 
"WE" are also a NATS unit! 
[This message has been edited by Data Dad (edited 31 August 2000).]
"WE" are also a NATS unit! [This message has been edited by Data Dad (edited 31 August 2000).]
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Look out ! That man has a loaded pin!
Data Dad,
sorry I haven't been back to this for a while, but I did the charts on something other than a fag packet, and you are completely correct.
I'm absolutely amazed and await an SRG answer.
Also, captlcc, I need to take issue about your lack of repeating roster at your unit.
You work, then you work some more, then some more, then some more, then some more, then some more.......
Father Jack
Data Dad,
sorry I haven't been back to this for a while, but I did the charts on something other than a fag packet, and you are completely correct.
I'm absolutely amazed and await an SRG answer.
Also, captlcc, I need to take issue about your lack of repeating roster at your unit.
You work, then you work some more, then some more, then some more, then some more, then some more.......
Father Jack
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2 six 4, "what has overtime to do with SRATCOH ?"
nothing, until your overtime shift breaks afore mentioned regulations- if you work @ ScO/L ACC you won't know what overtime is. May I refer you to the other thread about SRG and, as someone else wrote, them appearing to be in management's pocket.
nothing, until your overtime shift breaks afore mentioned regulations- if you work @ ScO/L ACC you won't know what overtime is. May I refer you to the other thread about SRG and, as someone else wrote, them appearing to be in management's pocket.