blah blah blah ryanair xyz.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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blah blah blah ryanair xyz.
Hi guys,
I'm a ground worker at DUB and tow a lot of aircraft around the field every day. I have a ppl so the r/t part of the job is easy for me for obvious reasons.
During my tow's,i hear the ryanair pilots manner on the radios,their read backs are sort of a disgrace.
For example..................
(CONTROLLOR) "ryanair xyz,taxi link 4 the fox's echo 1 hold short of 28".
(PILOT) " link 4 28 ryan blah blah blah"
I was told by my instructor,if your radio work is sloppy,your flying is likely to be sloppy!!
Any ATC controllor's out there think the same??
I'm a ground worker at DUB and tow a lot of aircraft around the field every day. I have a ppl so the r/t part of the job is easy for me for obvious reasons.
During my tow's,i hear the ryanair pilots manner on the radios,their read backs are sort of a disgrace.
For example..................
(CONTROLLOR) "ryanair xyz,taxi link 4 the fox's echo 1 hold short of 28".
(PILOT) " link 4 28 ryan blah blah blah"
I was told by my instructor,if your radio work is sloppy,your flying is likely to be sloppy!!
Any ATC controllor's out there think the same??
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I'm a TC Controller.
As far as I am concerned RYR are as good as any other airline and can be very helpful. The only problem I have is that occasionally an accent may be difficult to understand. They never question if I ask for fast, slow etc.
So from my end RYR are good.
As far as I am concerned RYR are as good as any other airline and can be very helpful. The only problem I have is that occasionally an accent may be difficult to understand. They never question if I ask for fast, slow etc.
So from my end RYR are good.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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I've never had any problem with their readbacks to be honest but then maybe they take more care when one of their northern cousins is in ADC/RAD. They are very helpful, especially when I ask them to keep the speed up to 6D.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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No Problems here either
They fly a lot, they're good at it, and they know what the plane can do and not do. I help them whenever I can and they do the same....never a murmur or a query to any instruction.....likewise the Shamrocks have been my long time No 1 professionals for many years.....must be an Irish thing!
Wish I had a sky full....they knock spots off the long haul prima donnas we have to deal with....."do you mean now or at our discretion?" brigade.
Work it out for yourself.....a Heavy on a 12 hour flight where the one landing is fought over......or 12 one-hour sectors in the dense European melting pot......?
Controllers and pilots get to know one another by voice, certain tones and inflections convey the understanding to each......it is not always book perfect in every case but we sure move a heck of a lot of traffic with little short-cuts like that. [ If I thought he/she didn't understand, I would insist on the "book" response....but which book....the UK R/T has 174 differences from standard ICAO.....and different UK airports have even more variations from those variations]
Wish I had a sky full....they knock spots off the long haul prima donnas we have to deal with....."do you mean now or at our discretion?" brigade.
Work it out for yourself.....a Heavy on a 12 hour flight where the one landing is fought over......or 12 one-hour sectors in the dense European melting pot......?
Controllers and pilots get to know one another by voice, certain tones and inflections convey the understanding to each......it is not always book perfect in every case but we sure move a heck of a lot of traffic with little short-cuts like that. [ If I thought he/she didn't understand, I would insist on the "book" response....but which book....the UK R/T has 174 differences from standard ICAO.....and different UK airports have even more variations from those variations]
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I speak to RYR every day. No probs here either. They know the routes and they know the required levels at certain points. With the amount of flying they do, its to be expected. Haven't had a whinge out of them yet, but will try harder to provoke one
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I would generally agree, RYR are pretty good customers. One small gripe would be the initial call, which nine times out of ten comes with a request for DCT. I'm sure they are pressured from above to push for DCT as soon as possible, but it still irks me somewhat. Its a bit like saying "so wheres my birthday present then?" upon waking up on your big day.
Otherwise I find RYR very professional and easy to work with.
Otherwise I find RYR very professional and easy to work with.
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I know what they teach at PPL level, and what we say is not really beyond that but when you say the same thing day in day out to the same controllers at a UK base that you know I am sure as has been proven here we can be forgiven for cutting things short, especially when we know most of the time what our clearence is going to be!
I must say when I hear the tug drivers requesting a tug it always sounds very standard!
I must say when I hear the tug drivers requesting a tug it always sounds very standard!
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blah blah blah I have a PPL so I know....yeah right I know where to come for tips then
My only comment about ATC in Dublin is that the controllers seem to think its a race to get the clearance out as fast as possible. My pencil is smoking after the clearance! Im a natural English speaker so god help the non natives. Could you slow it up just a bit...please...
My only comment about ATC in Dublin is that the controllers seem to think its a race to get the clearance out as fast as possible. My pencil is smoking after the clearance! Im a natural English speaker so god help the non natives. Could you slow it up just a bit...please...
Last edited by batty; 21st Dec 2004 at 18:14.
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Have no problems with Ryanair RT or anything else for that matter. A slight tendency to fly 160 by 4 dme instead of 160 TO 4 but as with any large airline there are the good and the not so good. No different from anyone else. You do get the impression that they are leaned on from on high, not sure I could cope with that so good luck to em !!!
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Accusations of bad RT technique cannot be directed at one airline. There are many pilots out there(and as many controllers I am ashamed to say) who have forgotten that the whole point of good/standard RT is safety. I have experienced the cream of the worlds favourite airline not even bothering to call on final, then when you ask if they are on frequency the reply has been . . . . "YUP".
Equally I have heard some of the stuff my colleagues have come out with and as much as you can try to joke about how sloppy they are they will not take any notice because they think they know best. So, all you RT users out there . . . . STOP BEING NAUGHTY
Equally I have heard some of the stuff my colleagues have come out with and as much as you can try to joke about how sloppy they are they will not take any notice because they think they know best. So, all you RT users out there . . . . STOP BEING NAUGHTY
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I used to operate into and out of Dublin in a light twin, and in more recent times, I was working on the ramp, and some of the time towing, and using the RT for that.
In my experience, ATC were always the ultimate professionals, even back in the "good old days" before they had the secondary radar and the main runway was 23, which meant a lot more reporting for separation. They were also very helpful when I was working on the ramp, and I never had any issues with them during my time there.
I never found a problem with abbreviated messages, if nothing else, in the more recent time, it helped, in that even with the addition of clearance delivery, 121.8 at certain times of the day is so darn busy, anything that reduces the traffic on the frequency has to be welcome. At peak periods, trying to get into the queue on the RT was problematic, not because of faults, but the sheer volume of activity.
Having said that, I too would agree with the comments made in other respects, there's a fine dividing line between professional and plain sloppy. It's also true to say that it's normally not too hard to decide which category a particular individual falls into, and respond accordingly.
Based on my experiences at DUB, I think they've got it pretty close to right. It's only relatively recently that towing aircraft unescorted by Aer Rianta Ops has come fully on line, especially for some of the handling companies, and in the early days, it was very much a case of everyone having to get used to the capabilities of the "other end", and recognising who knew what they were doing, and who was still more than a little green.
The ones that were not quite up to speed were still dealt with very professionally, but things like readbacks and clearance limits were emphasised a lot more, to be absolutely sure, and that's how it should be. Whatever about 2 aircraft under power getting too close, it's a lot more complicated to sort out two aircraft that are too close if one of them is on the back of a towing tractor.
I had a big advantage, I'd used the airport as a pilot, so I knew most of the routes around the place, but some of the ramp agents who got towing added to their responsibilities found it quite hard at first to sort out where they were supposed to be going, and whatever about listening out in an aircraft with a reasonable headset, listening out on a not particularly well installed radio using a cheap speaker, while driving a seriously underpowered tug that's roaring it's guts out trying to drag a B747 up the slope behind stands 15 to 9 is a different story altogether. When you then add to that bad weather at night, with reduced visibility, badly aligned headlights, and sceen wipers that are not quite up the the original manufacturers spec, I can assure you that trying to find the very narrow yellow taxi line that appears black in the sodium lighting is another story altogether, especially when they've been changed, and the old ones painted over with black paint. Deciding which black line is the yellow line is sometimes quite "interesting".
I digress a little, but I hope the underlying thoughts are clear. I don't see there being too much of an issue here, as long as there's no confusion, and everyone knows what's going on.
I'd rather have this level of difference than have the scenario that exists in Europe, where some messages are in the "local" language, and the rest are in English. In that situation, it's very easy to not be aware of something that could be very significant.
In my experience, ATC were always the ultimate professionals, even back in the "good old days" before they had the secondary radar and the main runway was 23, which meant a lot more reporting for separation. They were also very helpful when I was working on the ramp, and I never had any issues with them during my time there.
I never found a problem with abbreviated messages, if nothing else, in the more recent time, it helped, in that even with the addition of clearance delivery, 121.8 at certain times of the day is so darn busy, anything that reduces the traffic on the frequency has to be welcome. At peak periods, trying to get into the queue on the RT was problematic, not because of faults, but the sheer volume of activity.
Having said that, I too would agree with the comments made in other respects, there's a fine dividing line between professional and plain sloppy. It's also true to say that it's normally not too hard to decide which category a particular individual falls into, and respond accordingly.
Based on my experiences at DUB, I think they've got it pretty close to right. It's only relatively recently that towing aircraft unescorted by Aer Rianta Ops has come fully on line, especially for some of the handling companies, and in the early days, it was very much a case of everyone having to get used to the capabilities of the "other end", and recognising who knew what they were doing, and who was still more than a little green.
The ones that were not quite up to speed were still dealt with very professionally, but things like readbacks and clearance limits were emphasised a lot more, to be absolutely sure, and that's how it should be. Whatever about 2 aircraft under power getting too close, it's a lot more complicated to sort out two aircraft that are too close if one of them is on the back of a towing tractor.
I had a big advantage, I'd used the airport as a pilot, so I knew most of the routes around the place, but some of the ramp agents who got towing added to their responsibilities found it quite hard at first to sort out where they were supposed to be going, and whatever about listening out in an aircraft with a reasonable headset, listening out on a not particularly well installed radio using a cheap speaker, while driving a seriously underpowered tug that's roaring it's guts out trying to drag a B747 up the slope behind stands 15 to 9 is a different story altogether. When you then add to that bad weather at night, with reduced visibility, badly aligned headlights, and sceen wipers that are not quite up the the original manufacturers spec, I can assure you that trying to find the very narrow yellow taxi line that appears black in the sodium lighting is another story altogether, especially when they've been changed, and the old ones painted over with black paint. Deciding which black line is the yellow line is sometimes quite "interesting".
I digress a little, but I hope the underlying thoughts are clear. I don't see there being too much of an issue here, as long as there's no confusion, and everyone knows what's going on.
I'd rather have this level of difference than have the scenario that exists in Europe, where some messages are in the "local" language, and the rest are in English. In that situation, it's very easy to not be aware of something that could be very significant.
