ATCA Breaks
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ATCA Breaks
Hi
just looking for some information on hours/breaks etc.. worked by ATCAS. I know the legal requirement for any worker over the age of 18 is one 20 min break per six hour shift. Wondered if there was anything solid with respect to ATCAs or if this was our lot.
A new change in staffing and policy at my current unit makes it hard to get that 20min break a shift and it would be good to have some examples of other units (Nats/non Nats/chips shops etc..) before I talk to el Boss
Thanks
just looking for some information on hours/breaks etc.. worked by ATCAS. I know the legal requirement for any worker over the age of 18 is one 20 min break per six hour shift. Wondered if there was anything solid with respect to ATCAs or if this was our lot.
A new change in staffing and policy at my current unit makes it hard to get that 20min break a shift and it would be good to have some examples of other units (Nats/non Nats/chips shops etc..) before I talk to el Boss
Thanks
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We are a H24 non NATS unit, but we only have one atca per shift, and one on days, to cover between 0545 -2200.
The standard atca shift is, 0900 -1700 (days), 0545 - 1345 or 1345 - 2200.
A written agreement exists which entitles them to at least one 30 minute break, but if there is no day atca, more often than not, a spare atco will also be available to extend that to at least an hour.
The day shift atca will cover for leave/sickness, but otherwise they will give the am/pm atca a significantly early go or late start (this is an unwritten agreement).
Overtime for public transport flights is optional, but when it is worked, it is usually taken as time in lieu at the O/T rate, instead of cash.
The standard atca shift is, 0900 -1700 (days), 0545 - 1345 or 1345 - 2200.
A written agreement exists which entitles them to at least one 30 minute break, but if there is no day atca, more often than not, a spare atco will also be available to extend that to at least an hour.
The day shift atca will cover for leave/sickness, but otherwise they will give the am/pm atca a significantly early go or late start (this is an unwritten agreement).
Overtime for public transport flights is optional, but when it is worked, it is usually taken as time in lieu at the O/T rate, instead of cash.
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Not able to help really, although I would have thought that Assistant breaks should be regulated aswell as ATCOs. Let's face it - we don't want you cocking up due to over tiredness do we?
Have you approached GATCO? Maybe they know.
Have you approached GATCO? Maybe they know.
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coolbeans
Do you not have Union representation? If you have, then they are the first port of call to get this resolved. 20 minutes in 6 hours seems a little low - where does the "legal requirement" come from? Might also help if you can find out if there are any EU guidelines on the subject - they seem to have issued guidelines for just about everything else!
Being unlicensed, we do not operate to the same rules and regulations as the ATCOs at LL. Our working agreements are negotiated by our Union (PCS), and the relief time granted under the current arrangement seems reasonable - a bit more (but not substantially!) than 20 minutes for 6 hours.
Do you not have Union representation? If you have, then they are the first port of call to get this resolved. 20 minutes in 6 hours seems a little low - where does the "legal requirement" come from? Might also help if you can find out if there are any EU guidelines on the subject - they seem to have issued guidelines for just about everything else!
Being unlicensed, we do not operate to the same rules and regulations as the ATCOs at LL. Our working agreements are negotiated by our Union (PCS), and the relief time granted under the current arrangement seems reasonable - a bit more (but not substantially!) than 20 minutes for 6 hours.
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Just found at from a mate at a non nats unit on the top a hill in yorkshire that the atca's take breaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner regardless. If it is busy and there are not enough atca's to cover then the atco's have to cover. the atca's leave at 2130 in the evening and leave the last controller (who is on a break) to cover if required. All to do with money and when there is an accident who is responsible? Management, ATCO's or ATSA's.
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20 minutes in a 6 hour shift comes from our friendly neighbourhood Cits advice bureau, and this is the min. that has to be provided.
We're considering approaching GATCO but i wanted to get an idea of what other ATCAs were on. Thanks for the help guys
We're considering approaching GATCO but i wanted to get an idea of what other ATCAs were on. Thanks for the help guys
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Surely an ATCO on a break should not be filling in to give ATCA's a break. I appreciate that ATCA's are entitled to breaks like anyone else but it shouldn't be the ATCO's. Isn't this covered in the CRATCOH regulations?
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You will probably find an approach to GATCO unhelpful, especially if past experiences at EGLL are anything to go by. ATCO Unions are there for the benefit of the ATCOs, not the ATSAs.
I presume from your posts that you don't have Union representation - maybe a chat with PCS, (rather than GATCO/Prospect), for their view on the situation might be a good next-step? You should also "go prepared" for your chat with your Management - get all the available info from CAB which was quoted to you first, and check it out thoroughly, and be sure you understand the in's and out's of your terms and conditions within your Contract of Employment, plus any local agreements.
Be sure of your facts before entering the fray - these issues have a nasty habit of biting back!
Good luck!
You will probably find an approach to GATCO unhelpful, especially if past experiences at EGLL are anything to go by. ATCO Unions are there for the benefit of the ATCOs, not the ATSAs.
I presume from your posts that you don't have Union representation - maybe a chat with PCS, (rather than GATCO/Prospect), for their view on the situation might be a good next-step? You should also "go prepared" for your chat with your Management - get all the available info from CAB which was quoted to you first, and check it out thoroughly, and be sure you understand the in's and out's of your terms and conditions within your Contract of Employment, plus any local agreements.
Be sure of your facts before entering the fray - these issues have a nasty habit of biting back!
Good luck!
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SCRATCOH does not cover giving ATCA's breaks, but it should, Many units get away with undermanning and SRG do not do anything about it. They set the rules and expect companies to comply. The companies do not comply, and then there are problems. There will be an accident one day due to undermanning
but at the moment it will not be addressed, until an incident occurs.
but at the moment it will not be addressed, until an incident occurs.
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Surely it does cover ATCA breaks by saying a break should be taken away from operational positions. To my mind that is ATCA positions as well. Are companies interpreting this to be away from the ATCO position, so working as an ATCA is OK?
If this is the case then SRG need to clarify it.
If this is the case then SRG need to clarify it.
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coolbeans
chatting to my collegues on this topic at our station if we work a minimum shift of 6hrs we are not intitled to get a break but we do.our breaks are 45mins irrispective of whether it is a 6hr or 8hr shift.
and from past experience rather first go to ur manager before approaching the union. hope it all works out
chatting to my collegues on this topic at our station if we work a minimum shift of 6hrs we are not intitled to get a break but we do.our breaks are 45mins irrispective of whether it is a 6hr or 8hr shift.
and from past experience rather first go to ur manager before approaching the union. hope it all works out
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Hi Coolbeans...............
At LTCC and LACC our ATSA's have a good system (as do us ATCO's) and take breaks according to staff numbers, legal requirements do not come into play as they are far behind what we already have. It is extremely unlikely that an ATSA will work longer than 1 hour without half an hours break. If this is exceeded then that is due to the early go list which means that you might have to work one and a half hours in order to get away early, such as 19:30 on a 2 -10 shift. With the spinners in it is quite normal for ATSA's to do 30 minutes on followed by 30 minutes break, this is the norm.
We are undoubtedly spoilt at larger units such a LACC and LTCC in having the staff to be able to regulate our own breaks, it is unthinkable that we would ever need to rely on legal minimums.
Take a visit to LATC and see for yourself.
Regards
SATCO
At LTCC and LACC our ATSA's have a good system (as do us ATCO's) and take breaks according to staff numbers, legal requirements do not come into play as they are far behind what we already have. It is extremely unlikely that an ATSA will work longer than 1 hour without half an hours break. If this is exceeded then that is due to the early go list which means that you might have to work one and a half hours in order to get away early, such as 19:30 on a 2 -10 shift. With the spinners in it is quite normal for ATSA's to do 30 minutes on followed by 30 minutes break, this is the norm.
We are undoubtedly spoilt at larger units such a LACC and LTCC in having the staff to be able to regulate our own breaks, it is unthinkable that we would ever need to rely on legal minimums.
Take a visit to LATC and see for yourself.
Regards
SATCO
Our lot get the same as the ATCOs: 25% of the total duty time 0730-2300 and 33% of the total duty time 2300-0730. I'm not kidding! This is at an area control centre by the way.
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Thanks for all the help, unfortunatly everything has gone a little tits up at our small south west airport at the moment (guess where), so the subject of Atca breaks has been pushed right to the back of managements minds. Lucky for us that its quiet right now i suppose. We can only hope that the new guys are better than the old.
Last edited by coolbeans; 17th Dec 2004 at 14:04.
