Has anyone seen this??? :o Serco to bail out NATS?
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Enough to say that NATS have 99% of the available Area Rated ATCOs already working for them.. .. .Difficult to replace therefore.... .. .Stand up for yourselves, they have no one else to turn to.. .. .It may have become all about the money, but I can remember when we did not need to say safety was 'paramount', that was taken for granted. Now we keep saying it...methinks we protesteth too much!!!!. .. .Sir Co - NO!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />
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Slagging off SERCO (and other non-NATS) companies is one thing. Doing the same with their employees is another thing and out of order! Given the content of some of the posts I get the feeling that SERCO staff might be even more professional than NATS staff. And yes, I am a NATS ATCO, but some of the comments that I read make me cringe. It is time we left the creche and started acting like the professionals and adults we are.
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Just to clear up a point.. .. .I attack Serco,its methods and experience. NOT the professionalism of any of its staff. Did I? No.. .. .If any NATS employees want "Serco" at the top of the - much smaller -payslip you are more than welcome. And, by the way, its not all about ATCO's. . .. .If Serco airfields are so good slot wise - is that something to do with NATS????? I think its ALL to do with NATS.
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There is an obvious answer to all this...... .. .TAG go to the government, and ask for permission to sell NSL (i.e. NATS airports business; which - remember - is already set up as a stand-alone subsidiary) to Serco. This would raise around £100m (guesstimate!), which TAG can then invest with much fanfare in NERL (area services).. .. .The government sells this to press and parliament as an asset sell-off on the basis that airport ATC has always been privately provided, and guarantees that area ATC will continue under the existing PPP arrangements.. .. .Our collegues in area services are safe, and therefore sell-out we airports folk in order to protect their own conditions and pension (and who could blame them!).. .. .I think that this is a very likely scenario, and I for one don't really have a problem with it.
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What would Prospect’ & PCS’ reactions be to SERCO getting a slice of the Company?. .. . . .. .Might they seek a judicial review of any decision by the Minister of Transport, based on the concerns expressed last year by both unions regarding SERCO’s safety management arrangements and abilities?? . .. .Remember the membership was up in arms at the future under SERCO and threatened industrial action to prevent the government selecting them as its prefered bidder.
niknak
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Bidding is expensive, our costs for most of our contracts are between £1 - £ million. Our failed bid for NATS cost us £10.2 million. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">- Kevin Beeston, CEO SERCO, quoted in yesterdays Daily Torygraph newspaper, (page29).. .He also went on to deny that SERCO was in talks to bail out or make any further bid for any part of NATS, for the above reasons.. .The article also confirmed that SERCO were making a placing with Merril Lynch in the hope of raising £120 million to wipe out debt and fund future bids.. .Looks like speed cameras, Immigration centres/prisons and technology for the National Crime Squad is more profitable than atc! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />
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It may well be that I had a bad experience with SERCO all those years ago. It was before the time of legal hours restrictions; we were understaffed and consequently never got the time off we were entitled to. We lacked the equipment we needed, what we did have was old and unreliable. . .. .There was pressure on us to keep everything flying in an immensely busy and complicated ATZ. One practice in particular was downright dangerous but as the Manager ATC was involved in it and it brought in much money he wasn't interested in hearing warnings about it. In the end, I 1261 'ed a potential loss of life incident only to have pressure applied to remove a sentence which indicated that these incidents were common place, which they were, I refused. . .. .They wanted revenue from jet traffic but also from cropping the open areas. An MOD professional Bird scarer who I consulted was horrified to see the number of large bird flocks picking off the ploughed land and warned of the danger of aircraft loss. His report was binned.. .. .In the summer, the tower stairwell would fill up with dead flies. It was disgusting and was evidence of their lack of care. The H&SE would not have liked it at all.. .. .NATS is an essential national asset and not one that should be exposed through any form of cost pressure, from anybody. We were privatised in order to bring in investment of £1BN over 10 years. We are now 6 months into the venture and so far about £200 down on investment. It is clear that, even on a not for profit basis, the need to make a business case has scupperred the investment that is essential to the future growth of the system. That is not acceptable to the UK. . .. .I hope I haven't offended anybody. One can only speak as one finds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Just like to point out to the unwashed that Serco doesn't just work in the UK, anyone been through the Middle-East recently? Passed anywhere near Bahrain or the UAE? Hmmm me thinks people need to do a little research before they come out guns blazing. Serco isn't the most perfect of companies but its definetly not the worst, they operate for profit, so does everyone else in this world, safety need not be sacrificed. Personally I was against PPP in the first place but now it's here and struggling because of Sept 11th,new ideas are needed. NATS can't keep running to the government for help so some arrangement with Serco has to be considered as an option.
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Fly Through.. .. ."All companies operate for profit". NATS is a not for profit organisation old chap. Any 'surplus funds' will be reinvested in the business not given to shareholders. NATS should be renationalised as PPP has so obviously failed. . .. .Any sensible organisation would not promote a minor league player to a major league competitor so NATS should not have anything to do with Serco except to take their ATC business away.
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Fly through:. .. .I would say that as NATS is an essential national asset the government has to guarantee it. If we aren't working then we must go to the government, continually if necessary and for me that is the very reason it should have remained in public hands.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .Point 4
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Greatunmanaged you obviously know nothing about Serco's ATC business. I was in the big leauges (you are not) I am a retired FAA controller(LAX,. .BAY TRACON, NY COMMON I, SFO) and I work for Serco.They are a great company that cares about it's employees. They stress safety above profit continuously and require more safety checks than the FAA requires of them.
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Greatunmanaged I also read your strike threat. I was around in 1981 you may want to learn from history. I have many friends that were ignorant enough to listen to the strike hype. I retired a GS 15 they are still trying to find ATC jobs.
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I think the word 'was' is important here. So is the acronym 'USA'. The UK deal is a very different one my friend. If you failed to support your colleauges when Raygun Regan was sacking them all that was your choice and your concience. Looks like you and Serco are made for each other - enjoy!
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I did not bring up the Big Leauge cocept I just pointed out that it is a perception thing. . .. .Again you speak of which you do not know. I never joined the union they had nothing to offer. I stayed because short and sweet I am an Air Traffic Controller and I love it. Serco is a great company.
Roger Out,. .Judging from your posts you are a NATS employed ATCO. Have you ever worked for Serco? Have you ever worked with Serco? I'm guessing the answer is no, please correct me if I'm wrong.. .If the answer to the above two questions is no, then wind your neck in. There seem to be loads of people on this forum queuing up to slag of Serco without one single piece of evidence to back up their allegations.. .I have worked for Serco for years and have always found them to be safety conscious, professional and responsive to their staff's needs. Over to you.... .. .LXGB
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Not entirely true LXGB. Whilst 120.4 didn't slag SERCO off he/she said a few things that seem to point to a less than benevolent attitude towards things, admittedly some years ago? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . .. .09L
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I have worked for SERCO for years and always found them to be safety conscious, professional and responsive to their staff's needs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Not my experience of the management attitude, but I acknowledge things probably have changed. The trouble is of course reputations are hard won and easily destroyed. I guess it is bit like trust, once betrayed..... .. .Point 4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 21:34: Message edited by: 120.4 ]</small>
ZNL, 120.4,. .Points taken. I have worked on a couple of Serco contracts and in my experience at least, the management and personnel departments have always helped me out whenever I have approached them with anything. The customers have always been happy with the service provided to them as well. So to sum up,in my experience with the firm, they are pretty good.. .Anyways, Rant over.. .. .Cheers,. .LXGB.
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Legs11 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> - re your March 5th post, I would point out that NATS did make an operating profit until we were purchased by the AG who took out £800 M worth of loans on our behalf turning us instantly into a precariously balanced operation...... .. .And for your information we have been aware for many years in NATS of the need to 'make ends meet'! And also the members of TAG have been in the real world for quite a long time they have not just arrived there as you suggest.. .. .Fact is, area control (airfields are a bit different) has to be there whatever happens - and NATS has taken a big hit with the reduction in N Atlantic traffic. According to Legs11 we should cease to operate if we can't make ends meet - REALLY! Tell that to the remaining airlines who presumably pay your salary too!!!. .. .Get real and realise that some things are ESSENTIAL and not governed by simple economics.. .. .And also FYI we are so tightly regulated financially now it's even difficult to get a Biro!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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Sector8 Dear, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings - but at no time have I said NATS </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">should cease to operate if we can't make ends meet</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">For the record I was never a supporter of the PPP either, yes some things are essential, and this whole mess needs to be sorted out CONSTRUCTIVELY , and slagging of Serco won't solve anything.. .. .FYI Serco provide biros, an essential SAFETY item, I'm sure you would agree. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />