Radio Ham calls planes overhead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Scotland
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radio Ham calls planes overhead
Inverness Courier December 21, 2001
Chat with jet pilots earns a £3000 fine
A POSTAL worker who chatted to transatlantic jet pilots using a radio transceiver at his Inverness home was fined a total of £3000 on Monday.
Depute fiscal Michael Poggi told Inverness Sheriff Court that Duncan MacRae (46), 18 Scorguie Court, used a £350 mail order transceiver to speak with pilots, initially on the same frequency as Scottish air traffic control at Prestwick.
On one occasion when he had made contact with pilots flying at high altitude in the Hebridean air traffic control sector, MacRae suggested they flipped to a different channel for a chat.
Mr Poggi said: “An investigations officer from the Radio Communications Agency visited Inverness on 21st July following up a report from Prestwick controllers about an unauthorised transmission on the national air frequencies channel.
“There was concern that these calls could be dangerous. It is the potential for blocking out any further communications from Prestwick that is at the heart of this offence.”
“The officer was able to speak to the person making the calls to pilots and get his address.”
The investigator and a colleague called at MacRae’s Scorguie home and discovered the transceiver.
MacRae admitted installing and unlawfully using the equipment to transmit messages to pilots between 9th May and 21st July and a further charge of using a radio scanning device to receive messages for which he did not have authorisation.
Defence solicitor Marc Dickson likened MacRae’s hobby to trainspotting.
Mr Dickson said: “He has always had an interest in the flight paths and patterns of aeroplanes.
“He would listen to pilots conversations for a period, then suggest they might like to move to an unofficial channel which pilots use to talk among themselves.
“He was never abusive or unpleasant.”
Mr Dickson said that MacRae, a single man who has worked for the Post Office for 11 years, did not try to hide what he was doing as he bought the equipment mail order using his own name and address.
Mr Poggi told Sheriff Kenneth Forbes that penalties for the offences range from substantial fines to up to two years in prison.
Mr Dickson said: “He did not appreciate the seriousness but realises that your lordship must send out a strong message to the public.”
Sentencing MacRae, Sheriff Forbes said: “These are unusual charges, the particular mischief is the act of making contact.
“You were oblivious to the seriousness of the situation and the potential risk.”
[email protected]
Chat with jet pilots earns a £3000 fine
A POSTAL worker who chatted to transatlantic jet pilots using a radio transceiver at his Inverness home was fined a total of £3000 on Monday.
Depute fiscal Michael Poggi told Inverness Sheriff Court that Duncan MacRae (46), 18 Scorguie Court, used a £350 mail order transceiver to speak with pilots, initially on the same frequency as Scottish air traffic control at Prestwick.
On one occasion when he had made contact with pilots flying at high altitude in the Hebridean air traffic control sector, MacRae suggested they flipped to a different channel for a chat.
Mr Poggi said: “An investigations officer from the Radio Communications Agency visited Inverness on 21st July following up a report from Prestwick controllers about an unauthorised transmission on the national air frequencies channel.
“There was concern that these calls could be dangerous. It is the potential for blocking out any further communications from Prestwick that is at the heart of this offence.”
“The officer was able to speak to the person making the calls to pilots and get his address.”
The investigator and a colleague called at MacRae’s Scorguie home and discovered the transceiver.
MacRae admitted installing and unlawfully using the equipment to transmit messages to pilots between 9th May and 21st July and a further charge of using a radio scanning device to receive messages for which he did not have authorisation.
Defence solicitor Marc Dickson likened MacRae’s hobby to trainspotting.
Mr Dickson said: “He has always had an interest in the flight paths and patterns of aeroplanes.
“He would listen to pilots conversations for a period, then suggest they might like to move to an unofficial channel which pilots use to talk among themselves.
“He was never abusive or unpleasant.”
Mr Dickson said that MacRae, a single man who has worked for the Post Office for 11 years, did not try to hide what he was doing as he bought the equipment mail order using his own name and address.
Mr Poggi told Sheriff Kenneth Forbes that penalties for the offences range from substantial fines to up to two years in prison.
Mr Dickson said: “He did not appreciate the seriousness but realises that your lordship must send out a strong message to the public.”
Sentencing MacRae, Sheriff Forbes said: “These are unusual charges, the particular mischief is the act of making contact.
“You were oblivious to the seriousness of the situation and the potential risk.”
[email protected]
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People who transmit unlawfully on the airband should be shot.
In fact no that's an awful thing to say........
They should be hung, drawn and very slowly quartered.
This chap wanted to chat on a private frequency, presumably 123.45 or suchlike? Doesn't matter. No excuse if he was "harmless" or not.
When will the government see sense and limit the sale of transmitters to those who hold a licence? Scanners and the like are fine.
But something really should be done about transmitters before something really bad happens.
In this day and age we can't afford to take any chances <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
In fact no that's an awful thing to say........
They should be hung, drawn and very slowly quartered.
This chap wanted to chat on a private frequency, presumably 123.45 or suchlike? Doesn't matter. No excuse if he was "harmless" or not.
When will the government see sense and limit the sale of transmitters to those who hold a licence? Scanners and the like are fine.
But something really should be done about transmitters before something really bad happens.
In this day and age we can't afford to take any chances <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of EU
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couldn't agree more with your postings.
This is a pretty flippant comment but we complain when journo's get facts wrong about pilots and as a radio ham myself and ATPL holder this gets under my collar!
To describe this bloke as a Radio Ham is incorrect. He held no transmitting licence from the Radio Communications Agency (like us 'hams do having passed two C&G exams involving radio theory, electronics, laws regarding transmitter apparratus and a 12wpm morse test).
As a Radio Ham I've never spoken to aircraft, except in my job, but I have bounced VHF signals off incoming meteor streams (don't ask why
) and talked to other fellow hams around the world!
Calling this guy a "radio ham" is a bit like calling a Microsoft Flight Sim pilot a "pilot".
Don't tar us with the same brush!
Off soapbox <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
This is a pretty flippant comment but we complain when journo's get facts wrong about pilots and as a radio ham myself and ATPL holder this gets under my collar!
To describe this bloke as a Radio Ham is incorrect. He held no transmitting licence from the Radio Communications Agency (like us 'hams do having passed two C&G exams involving radio theory, electronics, laws regarding transmitter apparratus and a 12wpm morse test).
As a Radio Ham I've never spoken to aircraft, except in my job, but I have bounced VHF signals off incoming meteor streams (don't ask why
) and talked to other fellow hams around the world!Calling this guy a "radio ham" is a bit like calling a Microsoft Flight Sim pilot a "pilot".
Don't tar us with the same brush!
Off soapbox
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Last edited by Scottie; 6th Sep 2002 at 16:09.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hear hear, Scottie. I too am a radio amateur and despise the way journalists use the term "radio ham" for every miscreant who abuses the air waves. However, I have often communicated with aircraft legitimately using my amateur radio gear - but only with properly authorised pilots who were using their amateur licences "aeronautical mobile". This is a licence category available in many countries but not, to my knowledge, in the UK.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, the media the the US also frequently label anyone with a radio a "ham."
There have been numerous incidents in the US of some criminal with a 2-way aviation band radio transmitting false ATC instructions to aircraft, but fortunately no accidents, yet.
I too am an Amateur Radio Operator, and frequently operate "aeronautical mobile" from a Learjet on SSB on long boring flights.
Happy New Year to all.
There have been numerous incidents in the US of some criminal with a 2-way aviation band radio transmitting false ATC instructions to aircraft, but fortunately no accidents, yet.
I too am an Amateur Radio Operator, and frequently operate "aeronautical mobile" from a Learjet on SSB on long boring flights.
Happy New Year to all.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: North west UK
Age: 64
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I could go and sit in my (club) Warrior and chat on 123.45 to any passing aircraft!!!
But could not sit in my front room with a hand held and do the same???
I will dig out my licence and read the small print (does it have to be fixed in an aircraft?) if it does how do microlights and handhelds get round it?
Should avoid calling on 121.5 though <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
But could not sit in my front room with a hand held and do the same???
I will dig out my licence and read the small print (does it have to be fixed in an aircraft?) if it does how do microlights and handhelds get round it?
Should avoid calling on 121.5 though <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PA38, you could chat on 123.45 to any passing aircraft, however, I remember that some years ago that frequency was allocated to a ground station who got peeved (understandably) with pilot pals chatting away to each other.
Ground stations would, however, get extremely peeved if you started calling aircraft and requesting a chat (even if you subsequently changed to another frequency). There is also the problem that no-one (unless they personally knew you) would know what your real motives were.
Chatting is for the pub afterwards! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Ground stations would, however, get extremely peeved if you started calling aircraft and requesting a chat (even if you subsequently changed to another frequency). There is also the problem that no-one (unless they personally knew you) would know what your real motives were.
Chatting is for the pub afterwards! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Join Date: May 2001
Location: EIDW,Eire
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well i don't see why he should be hung drawn and quartered....a stern warning should have been enough.....have any of you above ever flown across the Atlantic and listened to the non stop chatter on the HF freq????
If you did you would realise that this "ham" guy is not alone and granted going across the pond it's pilot to pilot but it is the same thing in the end.
You even get the lads from DAL playing the Beach Boys.....now really is that what we call "professionals".....let's sort out our back yard before we jump off onto a guy who's just doing the same thing.
I agree if the transciever is illegal in the UK then do him on those charges.....but lads come on if the boys going across the Atlantic are having a granny chat and yr man could hear them then who is showing the worse example......
If you did you would realise that this "ham" guy is not alone and granted going across the pond it's pilot to pilot but it is the same thing in the end.
You even get the lads from DAL playing the Beach Boys.....now really is that what we call "professionals".....let's sort out our back yard before we jump off onto a guy who's just doing the same thing.
I agree if the transciever is illegal in the UK then do him on those charges.....but lads come on if the boys going across the Atlantic are having a granny chat and yr man could hear them then who is showing the worse example......
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ontheairwaves. HF isn't quite the same as a hectic terminal area VHF frequency (I've used both in the course of my career). I've experienced someone giving instructions to aircraft I was directing into Heathrow and it was far from funny.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: EIDW,Eire
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree in a busy terminal area yes they should not have any say in aircraft movement.
But if the pilots are to "chat" back to him then surely the guy would be encouraged to "chat" even more....
The pilots who spoke with him should also have received a warning not to engage in idle chit/chat on the airwaves especially if it is in a busy terminal enviroment....
There is more than 1 party at fault....also if ATC were able to hear him did they not try and stop him from chatting????
Yes it's not a cut/dry scenario but leads to wonder why there weren't others in the dock too.
But if the pilots are to "chat" back to him then surely the guy would be encouraged to "chat" even more....
The pilots who spoke with him should also have received a warning not to engage in idle chit/chat on the airwaves especially if it is in a busy terminal enviroment....
There is more than 1 party at fault....also if ATC were able to hear him did they not try and stop him from chatting????
Yes it's not a cut/dry scenario but leads to wonder why there weren't others in the dock too.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry - and I know this is going to upset Ontheairwaves - but ATC frequencies are there for use by those who know what they're doing and have a need to communicate on them. Yes, when it's quiet R/T can become more chatty - I guess it shouldn't but that just human nature - but when it's busy or a pilot has a problem to sort out everyone lnows the rules and sticks to them.
Don't get confused between ATC frequencies and those used by airlines for company communications - they may be in the same frequency band but they're a world apart and very different rules prevail.
Our Scottish postman is guilty of many things - including stupidity. What posesses anyone to think that chatting to pilots on a radio he picked up at a car boot sale is OK - if it was, surely everyone would be doing it, or was he the only one smart enough to think of it!
This man was stupid and his little knowledge was enough to put many innocent peoples lives at risk. We have laws to protect the innocent and, as the lawyers say, ignorance is no excuse.
What bothers me is that there are people like Ontheairwaves who see nothing wrong with using a radio in this way. His comments about use of HF
on transatlantic flights strike me as a similar case of a little knowledge being a bad thing.
It really is time that these idiots were sorted out once and for all. niteflite01's not wrong.
Don't get confused between ATC frequencies and those used by airlines for company communications - they may be in the same frequency band but they're a world apart and very different rules prevail.
Our Scottish postman is guilty of many things - including stupidity. What posesses anyone to think that chatting to pilots on a radio he picked up at a car boot sale is OK - if it was, surely everyone would be doing it, or was he the only one smart enough to think of it!
This man was stupid and his little knowledge was enough to put many innocent peoples lives at risk. We have laws to protect the innocent and, as the lawyers say, ignorance is no excuse.
What bothers me is that there are people like Ontheairwaves who see nothing wrong with using a radio in this way. His comments about use of HF
on transatlantic flights strike me as a similar case of a little knowledge being a bad thing.
It really is time that these idiots were sorted out once and for all. niteflite01's not wrong.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Must agree strongly with Niteflite .It was Thanks to a genuine Radio Amateur who managed to record some of the 'interferers' transmissions and help get a solid case for conviction.
The person in question was calling aircraft on an operational frequency and asking them to change frequencies to 123.45. Once the Pilots realised what was going on they quickly changed back. His stupid actions could have resulted in a vital genuine ATC transmission being missed.
This person should have received the strongest punishment possible and be made an example of . There should also be some action taken to prevent the sale of airband tranceivers to the general public before something occurs with a more tragic outcome
The person in question was calling aircraft on an operational frequency and asking them to change frequencies to 123.45. Once the Pilots realised what was going on they quickly changed back. His stupid actions could have resulted in a vital genuine ATC transmission being missed.
This person should have received the strongest punishment possible and be made an example of . There should also be some action taken to prevent the sale of airband tranceivers to the general public before something occurs with a more tragic outcome
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Y'know I really can't understand it.........
Would the police allow their radio equipment to be sold over the counter to Joe Public?
The fire brigade?
Ambulance service?
I realise that you can't get a "private ambulance drivers licence" or whatever but surely the underlying principle is just the same?
To buy a transceiver for the airband you should - you MUST have a licence to operate it.
No excuses, no "Ahhhh but he only wanted to chat to pilots on a non-operational frequency and was harmless blah blah", no arguement and no easy punishment.
We've had a few problems at EGCC with absolture scum-sucking idiots Tx'ing on Tower and App so I know only too well how horrific it is when it happens - how worrying.
How anyone can stick up for this loser beats me <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Would the police allow their radio equipment to be sold over the counter to Joe Public?
The fire brigade?
Ambulance service?
I realise that you can't get a "private ambulance drivers licence" or whatever but surely the underlying principle is just the same?
To buy a transceiver for the airband you should - you MUST have a licence to operate it.
No excuses, no "Ahhhh but he only wanted to chat to pilots on a non-operational frequency and was harmless blah blah", no arguement and no easy punishment.
We've had a few problems at EGCC with absolture scum-sucking idiots Tx'ing on Tower and App so I know only too well how horrific it is when it happens - how worrying.
How anyone can stick up for this loser beats me <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: North west UK
Age: 64
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have some very nice hand held radios ex custom and excise that came still programed!!!!
They cost me £10.00 each and with not too much tweaking they now recive EGCC transmisions in the UHF band 455.55 and 455.65 mhz.
I have disabled the transmit becuase of children and my dead head brother, but it is that easy..
£10.00 and limited knowledge and you can talk to ANYONE, you will never restrict the selling of surplus radios, I even have some nice ex Police ones with the prog chips still in <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
They cost me £10.00 each and with not too much tweaking they now recive EGCC transmisions in the UHF band 455.55 and 455.65 mhz.
I have disabled the transmit becuase of children and my dead head brother, but it is that easy..
£10.00 and limited knowledge and you can talk to ANYONE, you will never restrict the selling of surplus radios, I even have some nice ex Police ones with the prog chips still in <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wouldn't be ex-police Motorola HT600e's would they by any chance?
True though - at "rallies" (one in Llandudno, big one at Castle Donnington too and many others) you can pick up ex C&E and Police sets relatively cheaply now - chargers and all.
These surplus sets will become even more prolific once TETRA or AIRWAVE or whatever its called these days, gets introduced.
I'm also aware that recently a man in Greater Manchester received a custodial sentence (I think) for transmitting music on one of their divisional PR channels.
So they have problems too. Not really quite as many lives at risk though.
So - 600e's are they? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
True though - at "rallies" (one in Llandudno, big one at Castle Donnington too and many others) you can pick up ex C&E and Police sets relatively cheaply now - chargers and all.
These surplus sets will become even more prolific once TETRA or AIRWAVE or whatever its called these days, gets introduced.
I'm also aware that recently a man in Greater Manchester received a custodial sentence (I think) for transmitting music on one of their divisional PR channels.
So they have problems too. Not really quite as many lives at risk though.
So - 600e's are they? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: North west UK
Age: 64
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No such luck niteflight just a brace of very good condition pye pfx's, but my best toy is an Icom IC-U16 with direct entry freq via the keypad.
I don't transmit of course cos I ain't got a licence
I don't transmit of course cos I ain't got a licence