Who was right?
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Who was right?
Hi,
Got a question stemming from a visit to a large regional airport recently that I wonīt name just yet so I can keep it a general question.
I flew in, paid up, and was ready at the hold to fly VFR back to another large regional airport. I was cleared for a particular departure, the details of which I had read in my flight guide prior to setting off. However, my flight guide was only recently out of date it seems.
I was climbing away and switched to approach telling them who I was and what I was doing as usual and they informed me that I was climbing above the maximum height allowed by the departure. I had read nothing about this max height in the book (must have been quite new) but they said it was ok to continue this particular time. Phew.
Now, I had never been to this airport before and no one mentioned to me any height restrictions at any point during the day. Should ATC have informed me of the restriction during the departure clearance or is it right for them to assume that a visiting PPL has read the updated rules etc and knows everything? It could be missed, weīre only human.
Just wondering whether they were wrong or me thatīs all, if someone could clear it up that would be grand. I have found that whilst visiting other airfields that people always tell me to watch out for something on my way back etc but this particular day, nowt, which is why I am confused.
Cheers
DVR6K
Got a question stemming from a visit to a large regional airport recently that I wonīt name just yet so I can keep it a general question.
I flew in, paid up, and was ready at the hold to fly VFR back to another large regional airport. I was cleared for a particular departure, the details of which I had read in my flight guide prior to setting off. However, my flight guide was only recently out of date it seems.
I was climbing away and switched to approach telling them who I was and what I was doing as usual and they informed me that I was climbing above the maximum height allowed by the departure. I had read nothing about this max height in the book (must have been quite new) but they said it was ok to continue this particular time. Phew.
Now, I had never been to this airport before and no one mentioned to me any height restrictions at any point during the day. Should ATC have informed me of the restriction during the departure clearance or is it right for them to assume that a visiting PPL has read the updated rules etc and knows everything? It could be missed, weīre only human.
Just wondering whether they were wrong or me thatīs all, if someone could clear it up that would be grand. I have found that whilst visiting other airfields that people always tell me to watch out for something on my way back etc but this particular day, nowt, which is why I am confused.
Cheers
DVR6K
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It is the pilots responsibility to have current versions. ATC try and help out....particually if the pilot obviously sounds inexperienced or unfamiliar but it is not possible for us to check up on things like whether the pilot has the right departure plate.....
Im not sure how things work in your part of the world but if you are a current pilot you should have (or have access to) copies of the appropriate documents and you should automatically be sent amendments. Amendments are normally published well in advance of their effective date so there should be no exuse for out of date pubs....it can be dangerous because of simple things like level busts
Im not sure how things work in your part of the world but if you are a current pilot you should have (or have access to) copies of the appropriate documents and you should automatically be sent amendments. Amendments are normally published well in advance of their effective date so there should be no exuse for out of date pubs....it can be dangerous because of simple things like level busts
Difficult to give a specific answer to a general question, but I'll try. If the VFR departure clearance/route is published and includes a specific maximum level, then the short reply is that you will be expected to know and comply. Having said that, it is perhaps prudent for ATC to mention/highlight any 'recent change' to the published levels, but what is your definition of 'recent'? And unless a pilot mentions on the R/T that he has not previously visited a particular Airport, how would ATC know this? O.K.- sometimes there are clues that suggest "handle with care", and any ATCO worth his salt will then be only too happy to oblige.
Prior to visiting pastures new, I find that a quick 'phone call to the destination ATC unit is good value. State your case, ask for help/advice/tips - it works! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Prior to visiting pastures new, I find that a quick 'phone call to the destination ATC unit is good value. State your case, ask for help/advice/tips - it works! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Hiya,
All recieved and understood. My part of the world at that time was Exeter and I flew into Cardiff.
When I touched down the guy asked me if I was familiar with the airport and I said no so he must have known it was my first time in.
My book was recently out of date, as in a week or something. The reason why I didnīt have a new one was because Barclays cocked up my credit card account and an order from Transair didnīt make it in time.
No one mentioned anything untoward on the phone because I always phone first to check whassup at the destination. And I spoke to ATC.
Thanks for the ideas. Iīll put it down to experience and proportion the blame 50 50, hehe.
Cheers
All recieved and understood. My part of the world at that time was Exeter and I flew into Cardiff.
When I touched down the guy asked me if I was familiar with the airport and I said no so he must have known it was my first time in.
My book was recently out of date, as in a week or something. The reason why I didnīt have a new one was because Barclays cocked up my credit card account and an order from Transair didnīt make it in time.
No one mentioned anything untoward on the phone because I always phone first to check whassup at the destination. And I spoke to ATC.
Thanks for the ideas. Iīll put it down to experience and proportion the blame 50 50, hehe.
Cheers
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Ah - specifics, now you get a better answer.
Notwithstanding it's being a published procedure I would have said it would have been prudent for the Controller to have given you the level restriction in your departure clearance (I would have done it). For a start it stops things like this happening. The fact that you were a non-based aircraft should have flagged this up in the controllers thinking, and so you can't take all the blame - I think 50 50 is fair enough. As it was a recent change then it wouldn't have hurt the guy to re-iterate the level - Cardiff's not the busiest place in the world after all <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
CM
Notwithstanding it's being a published procedure I would have said it would have been prudent for the Controller to have given you the level restriction in your departure clearance (I would have done it). For a start it stops things like this happening. The fact that you were a non-based aircraft should have flagged this up in the controllers thinking, and so you can't take all the blame - I think 50 50 is fair enough. As it was a recent change then it wouldn't have hurt the guy to re-iterate the level - Cardiff's not the busiest place in the world after all <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
CM
I think that what is really needed in the UK is adoption of VFR route designators, as per ICAO (similar to SID designators). Then it would be self-evident if ATC and the pilot were not speaking the same language. In the absence of designators, it would seem obvious that ATC should spell out the whole route and maximum level.
