Pet Peeves
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Pet Peeves
Hi guys,
As a pilot I am interested in hearing from ATC what we as pilots can do to make things easier(maybe it will also make our lives easier).
So what do we do that peeves you the most and how do we avoid it.
As a pilot I am interested in hearing from ATC what we as pilots can do to make things easier(maybe it will also make our lives easier).
So what do we do that peeves you the most and how do we avoid it.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Not reading back clearances in the correct order.
ie. "After the landing 747, cross runway 27L"
Rather than the more usual "Cross runway 27L......." Cue mucho panic ".......after the landing 747."
Arrrrrgh! One day somebody's just going to readback "Cross runway 27L" and the ATCO will think he/she's heard the condition as well.
Gonzo.
ie. "After the landing 747, cross runway 27L"
Rather than the more usual "Cross runway 27L......." Cue mucho panic ".......after the landing 747."
Arrrrrgh! One day somebody's just going to readback "Cross runway 27L" and the ATCO will think he/she's heard the condition as well.
Gonzo.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Be aware that although you may be taking thing easy, we may be busy! ( The same applies the other way, i know.. I'm working on it...!) 
See FIS's comments above and that will help us all!
See FIS's comments above and that will help us all!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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asking where you are in the sequence for departure, especially when there's about 15 at the holding point. waste of time. just expect to be there for 20 mins, if you get away any earlier its a bonus.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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evenflow, I know what you mean.
I was doing 27L departures last month, very busy, 15-20 at the hold. Just had an emergency land on 27R, closing the runway for 10 mins, so we had a few landers on 27L, this was followed by TEAM with continuous landings on the departure runway because inbound delay had reached 40 minutes. However, the gaps were only 8 miles so not really allowing me to get a decent flow going. I had a Cat B helicopter operating nearby so traffic info had to be passed to everyone.
I had three a/c call me for their sequence number in one minute, and to the last one I said: "I'll call you back when I can, I'm very busy."
Another minutes passes and "Uuuh, tower, request our number for departure."
"Okay, the next one to ask for their sequence will be last"
Peace and quiet!
Gonzo.
I was doing 27L departures last month, very busy, 15-20 at the hold. Just had an emergency land on 27R, closing the runway for 10 mins, so we had a few landers on 27L, this was followed by TEAM with continuous landings on the departure runway because inbound delay had reached 40 minutes. However, the gaps were only 8 miles so not really allowing me to get a decent flow going. I had a Cat B helicopter operating nearby so traffic info had to be passed to everyone.
I had three a/c call me for their sequence number in one minute, and to the last one I said: "I'll call you back when I can, I'm very busy."
Another minutes passes and "Uuuh, tower, request our number for departure."
"Okay, the next one to ask for their sequence will be last"
Peace and quiet!
Gonzo.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Asking for a turn on track "when available" when it's pretty obvious we're going to do that, also asking for a handoff to the next unit (which you normally ask when we're on the phone to them doing it)
In short - don't ask for the bleedin' obvious
CM
In short - don't ask for the bleedin' obvious
CM
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Despite all the technical changes in ATC, we still have not been provided with a crystal ball. Let us know what you want / require, in plenty of time. We can't read your mind or see into the future. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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Thanks guys,
I don't really fly in your part of the world, but still lots of useful stuff(that does apply here).
I can understand the fustration of continual requests regarding position in sequence. I may have been guilty of that in the past, but it is more to gauge delays than impatience - we are often sitting with a plane load of pax and we have to tell tham what is going on.
Please keep it coming.
I don't really fly in your part of the world, but still lots of useful stuff(that does apply here).
I can understand the fustration of continual requests regarding position in sequence. I may have been guilty of that in the past, but it is more to gauge delays than impatience - we are often sitting with a plane load of pax and we have to tell tham what is going on.
Please keep it coming.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Asking for an intersection departure, getting it, lining up, then blocking the runway while asking how long is the runway. Should be a reportable offence.
Adding "if available" to any request Eg "request FL390, if available." Let me tell you I am not going to give you anything that's not available.
[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: willadvise ]</p>
Adding "if available" to any request Eg "request FL390, if available." Let me tell you I am not going to give you anything that's not available.
[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: willadvise ]</p>
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Willadvise,
You make a good point - I can also own up to that.
Without sounding defensive, let me just say this :
I think it is just a thing pilots do to try and sound nice - like they are not insisting on it.
How would you suggest we emphasise the difference between something that we would "like" to have and something we "must" have eg aah - maybe a bad example, but say weather avoidance - definitely can't go through a thunderstorm, so that is not just a "nice" to have?
Thanx guys.
4g
You make a good point - I can also own up to that.
Without sounding defensive, let me just say this :
I think it is just a thing pilots do to try and sound nice - like they are not insisting on it.
How would you suggest we emphasise the difference between something that we would "like" to have and something we "must" have eg aah - maybe a bad example, but say weather avoidance - definitely can't go through a thunderstorm, so that is not just a "nice" to have?
Thanx guys.
4g
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@4g: Say "we have to" with a "due to" - do not let us mix up a request with an urgent need! I once had an italian pilot on frequency requesting descent out of the cruising level, which was a complicated coordination due to airspace structure so I told him to stand by. After two times saying that he said that he canīt really do so because there is an engine on fire!
Avoiding wx is not a problem, just tell us you have to - in advance, please! Playing tricks is sometimes tolerated among a few of us. We do notice when the avoiding heading equals the direct routing to the destination. Insist on having to!
Avoiding wx is not a problem, just tell us you have to - in advance, please! Playing tricks is sometimes tolerated among a few of us. We do notice when the avoiding heading equals the direct routing to the destination. Insist on having to!
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I only have a few, and speaking as a UK ATCO, I think we are generally lucky that we operate in an environment with excellant pilots.
But here's what bugs me:
1. Very busy frequency with lots of stepped climbs and descents, pilot continually "approaching FLxxx requesting higher/lower"...usually pilots with an A or B ending flight number
2. "Any speed at CLIPY"....especially when the frequency is busy again, if not instructed that high speed is OK, then its standard speeds. When I'm at saturation on COWLY or NW, this kind of question is not what I need.
3. "c/s, approaching FLxxx, requesting lower"
"Negative, maintain FLxxx, traffic passing 1000ft below left/right"
"Roger we have him on TCAS"
Then why the hell did you ask in the first place !!! If I gave you descent the next words out of your mouth would be "TCAS Climb"
Really what I'm saying is a bit of situational awareness, if the frequency is really going, then please no extraneous requests, if you are getting stepped climbs, and descents then don't hassle for more, we don't give out step climbs/descents for fun it's because a thousand other green blips are all going up,down.left,right etc etc.
Minor quibbles really, on the whole British pilots and those who fly in UK airspace are really switched on and great to work with. I take my hat off to you ladies and gents.
It might be interesting to hear what pilots grumbles about us are, we might be able to help dispell some myths.
But here's what bugs me:
1. Very busy frequency with lots of stepped climbs and descents, pilot continually "approaching FLxxx requesting higher/lower"...usually pilots with an A or B ending flight number
2. "Any speed at CLIPY"....especially when the frequency is busy again, if not instructed that high speed is OK, then its standard speeds. When I'm at saturation on COWLY or NW, this kind of question is not what I need.
3. "c/s, approaching FLxxx, requesting lower"
"Negative, maintain FLxxx, traffic passing 1000ft below left/right"
"Roger we have him on TCAS"
Then why the hell did you ask in the first place !!! If I gave you descent the next words out of your mouth would be "TCAS Climb"
Really what I'm saying is a bit of situational awareness, if the frequency is really going, then please no extraneous requests, if you are getting stepped climbs, and descents then don't hassle for more, we don't give out step climbs/descents for fun it's because a thousand other green blips are all going up,down.left,right etc etc.
Minor quibbles really, on the whole British pilots and those who fly in UK airspace are really switched on and great to work with. I take my hat off to you ladies and gents.
It might be interesting to hear what pilots grumbles about us are, we might be able to help dispell some myths.