Dilema

[Controller_to_come]

Hello,

I am currently in my A2 year at school and would love a career in ATC.

However I am in a dilema whether to apply straight to NATS or to go to University, get a degree then apply to NATS.

Wish the current shortage of ATCO's I assume I have a better chance of getting in. Therefore dont want to wait 2/3yrs to find the industry saturated and me with no chance of getting in.

However on the other hand I dont want to get into NATS and then flunk out after say 5 months and have no degree to fall back on for a different career.

Anyone with a suggestion or someone I could write to for advice.

Thanks a lot

CTC

[hatsoff]

Go to University and keep reading these forums to get some idea of where our ATC System is going. ( We've no idea right now ! )

Selection is very tough so a good degree and some thoughts on a second career would be wise.

You could always apply while in your second or third year and ,if successful, arrange to complete the degree before joining.

[Northumbrian]

So, you don't apply and go get a degree, what next? You're three years older and the world is awash with people with degrees, as it is now; isn't, 'going to university', another way of describing 'three years of spending Dad's/Mum's/taxpayer's money whilst getting pissed and laid'? One of the guys that I work with has a PHD, several others have studied for and have got MA's, and other pieces of tatt; I've got an 'O'level, F- grade in macrame, sorry to be such a boastful swat, and manage to do the job! Apply now, and when/if you fail first time, apply and apply, untill you're too old to apply again, if that is your wont. If you do fail on the first attempt, get a propper job and take time to learn and teach yourself all that your brain can absorbe about aviation, especially navigation, meterology, radar, aircraft performance etc., you'll then be better prepared for your next attempt. You can re-apply every year until they/you're age /ego/heart, whichever, tells you to stop. Of course, this advice is only valid for anyone who is determined to become an ATCO and is ready for 3-4 years of sometimes intense and, occasionally, forcefully direct training ! Finally, think spacial awareness, if you don't know what it is, don't bother! And for those of you that know me - WHAT ?

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: Northumbrian ]

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: Northumbrian ]

[ATCO Two]

Hi C to C,

A good starting point might be to ensure you meet the medical requirements, especially eyesight. Also arrange to visit as many ATC Units as possible, and talk to operational ATCOs to confirm to yourself that this is the career for you. ATC is a very specialised profession, and controllers are not really qualified to do much else apart from the core task.

When I joined ATC, it was seen as a "career for life", but now people with degrees tend to enter the profession, try it out and leave to do something else if they don't like it. ATC was also a career which attracted people who were passionate about aviation, but again this has changed somewhat over the past decade or so. It is now seen as a reasonably interesting, challenging and fairly well paid job - aviation interest desirable but not necessary.

Having said all this, I have throughly enjoyed my time as an ATCO and wouldn't have wanted to do anything else. I still get a buzz out of the job after 29 years, but feel that perhaps the best years of ATC have long gone.

[Ringa-Bel?]

I'm with ATCO Two, check the medical requirements, find out as much as possible about ATC and decide if it's for you. Visit an Area Centre and an airport.

If you like what you see, apply; you've got nothing to lose. (Allow 6 months for selection). The majority of people starting at the College have already worked elsewhere or have done a degree before getting in, but there are still plenty of people who have joined straight from school. Be aware that it takes up to 21 months to get through the College and the pass rate is roughly 70%. Validation can take a further 2 to 3 years.

If you are unfortunate not to get in first time around then you can reapply after one year.

If you feel you are not 100% sure that you want to do it now, go to Uni, you can always apply later. Besides you may find something you would prefer to do.

[1261]

... but be under no illusion, the majority of people going into the college these days are either graduates or "second career" people - a lot of whom are in their mid-twenties.

I'd be the first to encourage you to come into ATC, it really is a great job (I should know, I spent eight years doing a different job - which I hated!). Just bear in mind that as ATCO 2 said above, an ATCO licence has only one use. A degree has hundreds, even if there is something of an oversupply in certain subjects at the moment. The current shortage of ATCOs will not be sorted out in the time that it takes you to get your degree, and the trend is towards the "right sort of chap" candidates at the moment, as opposed to the "spotters."

[Goldfish Watcher]

For what it's worth -

My 3 years at Uni were the best 3 years of my life - so far.

Learned a lot, played lots of sport and made loads of lifelong friends. I also felt as though it matured me a great deal as well. I'm one of those 'career change' people. I also know plenty of 'straight from school' types and some uni 'drop outs'. Background makes no difference - all competent(?) ATCOs.

My advice would be to go to uni and try for an ATC career afterwards. No point in pidgeon holing yourself right now. Or indeed knocking your pan in as a controller from the age of 21!

This is just my opinion of course - you need to make your own mind up. But options, options, options..... It's true that so many people have degrees these days - can you really see yourself being competitive in the job market if you fail at ATC and have no degree to show for it?

Good luck

GW

[5milesbaby]

C2C, apply to both Uni and ATC. If you get into ATC then 'wayhey'. If not, you have Uni to fall back on. Advice though, don't say to the interviewers that if you don't get the job you have a Uni place available. Just say you'll be looking into persuing further education. If you fail after getting the job (ie. don't make it), you may be offered alternative employment within the company, although this is getting a little scarce at the moment. If nothing else is offered, you can always go to Uni then anyway.
If you fail to succeed at the first attempt, then my advice is go to Uni and reapply over Christmas of your THIRD year. This gains you useful 'life experience', and you'll also have the time of you life at someone else's expense. You only get 3 attempts at the interviews, so its best to space the time out, and as the max age for applying has been increased (29???), going for it in the first 3 years is pointless.
I did the 'apply at 18' chance, and failed. I re-applied 3 years later after being told to 'go get life experience', having spent a year out and 2 at Uni. I'm now fully valid. I will never forget my Uni years, and only wish I'd finished the course, rather than ditch it after 2 years.
However 1261 and Atco 2 do have good points which are well worth thinking about. Don't be dissalusioned into thinking we will never need controllers at any stage. When I first applied, there were steady numbers starting courses every three months, and recently the intake numbers have increased to cover the demand with the new centre. If they drop, this will probably be to the level they used to be which covered natural wastage and the constant rise in ATC movements, forcing airspace changes involving new sectors to be formed. Its hard to decide, but thats what the company want, and re-applying shows the commitment NATS look for, hence why I probably fall into one of Goldfish Watchers statistics

[Little Fly Girl]

As an 18 year old ATCO wannabe, I am interested to know exactly how important your A_level grades are. I know that the NATS requirement is to study 2 A-Levels through to the examination stage, but are 'fails' in 2 out of 4 subjects and mediocre grades for the others frowned upon? My guess is that the answer to that question is Yes, but I'm just after a few professional opinions. Despite my poor sucess at college; I have 11 GCSEs grade A to C, a PPL, RAF Flying scholarship, HUGE determination to become an ATCO (just little desire to re-sit a-level maths & physics - both subjects I find incredibly difficult and therefore doubt my grades will increase anyway! ) am mature for my age and use my free time to participate in various activities with the ATC.

So, realisticaly (I can handle the horrid truth if need be! ) what do you think my chances are? I really don't want to re-apply next year, I want to do this NOW!

Thanks in advance,

LFG

[Controller_to_come]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

I have wanted to be an ATCO for a long time and I have all ready arranged and been on visits to Towers, Enroutes, etc + loved it.

Also I dont want to seem big headed but I think I have a reasonable knowledge of the workings of ATC.

Anyway thank you once again for your replies.

CTC

[Gonzo]

For what it's worth:

I applied to NATS at 18 (1997). At the time of application I had not yet taken my A-Levels, and got a place on the intial selection test on the strength of my predicted grades. My 'life experience' was minmial, if it existed at all! All I had going in my favour was a handful of flying hours under my belt, and my aviation anorak background.

Got through the selection prcess first time and I'm now just about to set off for an afternoon shift at Heathrow. If I slipped through the net, I'm sure there's hope for everyone!

Gonzo.

[Dan Dare]

Grades don't count for much. Determinaton to succeed and natural ability count for much more in ATC. Some of the best ATCOs arround have no A levels nor higher education.

University is fun, but very expensive. If you have a mature attitude then the college of ATC can provide a similar experience, but paid! You do only get one shot though and some life experience could enhance your chance of success through the training regime.

[Controller_to_come]

Hiya

Last question I promise before I write a letter to those nice people at NATS

Is it possible to do a deferred entry to the collage at EGHH after passing the selection and medical tests?

What I am getting at is would it be possible to apply to be an ATCO pass all the tests (hopefully), get offered a place at EGHH but then do a deferred entry until completing my degree, with the promise to return to take up my place?

Thanks a lot for all your help

CTC

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Controller_to_come ]

[5milesbaby]

Controller to Come - I would say to deffering entry, absolutely no chance. How do I know? I tried it myself, it was either start in 2 weeks, 3months, or resit all the tests again with no guarantee of passing.

[Controller_to_come]

Cheers

CTC

[Vlad the Impaler]

From my personal experience at CATC I often say that I wish I had signed up when I was 18 but to be honest, I don't think I had the maturity required at that time which has seen me through. A number of my colleagues were straight from A-levels and although some of the more gifted sailed through, those who had to work at it struggled badly and/or failed altogether. Only you can know if you have the ability to keep your nose to the stone when the s**t hits the fan. Also as the failure rate at the college is about 1/3 you could be well advised to get that degree first after all !!
either way, good luck

[Silva]

If they want you badly enough they will let you defer - I was offered 18 months! Turned it down though and stayed in the military system. Have you considered going to Uni, joining the UAS, receiving a grant and then commissioning? You only need to sign on the dotted line for 6 years, find out if you like it and get a greater experience base.