Class E ATC procedures
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From: Darraweit Guim, Victoria
Class E ATC procedures
Trying to get my head around how this is done elsewhere in the world. If the base of controlled airspace is above the LSALT or missed approach level for an aerodrome without a tower do you clear an aircraft to make an instrument approach? Do you usually specify an approach for any reason? Do you need an approach rating?
Just wondered, no particular reason....
Just wondered, no particular reason....
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Spodman;
I don't know if I completely understand the question. Also don't know what LSALT is... But here we clear aircraft for approach to an airport. If you don't care what approach they are on you can just clear them for approach. Or for that matter, you can clear them to cruise and let the pilot do everything on their own.
You just have to be an IFR controller <G> to clear an aircraft for an approach here.
regards
I don't know if I completely understand the question. Also don't know what LSALT is... But here we clear aircraft for approach to an airport. If you don't care what approach they are on you can just clear them for approach. Or for that matter, you can clear them to cruise and let the pilot do everything on their own.
You just have to be an IFR controller <G> to clear an aircraft for an approach here.
regards
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From: EU
I take it that LSALT = Lowest Sector (or Safe?) Altitude? If that's the case in the UK this is referred to as MSA = Minimum Sector Altitude.
With regard to Class E (which we have outside 10d around EDI), I'm not sure that I understand your question either. Here, Class E counts as controlled airspace for IFR traffic; we vector IFR traffic through it in the same way as any other classification of controlled airspace. Even Class F or G don't really make a difference to the approach for us - we simply vector under RAS.
However, in the UK you DO need an approach rating to clear someone for any type of approach.
With regard to Class E (which we have outside 10d around EDI), I'm not sure that I understand your question either. Here, Class E counts as controlled airspace for IFR traffic; we vector IFR traffic through it in the same way as any other classification of controlled airspace. Even Class F or G don't really make a difference to the approach for us - we simply vector under RAS.
However, in the UK you DO need an approach rating to clear someone for any type of approach.
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From: Darraweit Guim, Victoria
Considering neither of you understood my questions you have done a marvellous job of answering them, thanks!
I'm just trying to understand the concept of Class E down to (near) ground level, and the implications for ATC. I think it would be very restrictive outside radar coverage, unless anybody visual cancels IFR fairly promptly? Or does such airspace only exist in radar coverage?
I'm just trying to understand the concept of Class E down to (near) ground level, and the implications for ATC. I think it would be very restrictive outside radar coverage, unless anybody visual cancels IFR fairly promptly? Or does such airspace only exist in radar coverage?
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From: Australia
Spodman,
Your first post stated "no particular reason". I hear talk of E base much less than A075/F125. Is your rumour mill telling you the same thing? Do the airlines realise how restrictive this would be? I can't imagine too many enroute controllers embracing such an idea either!!
Regards,
Your first post stated "no particular reason". I hear talk of E base much less than A075/F125. Is your rumour mill telling you the same thing? Do the airlines realise how restrictive this would be? I can't imagine too many enroute controllers embracing such an idea either!!
Regards,
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From: EU
Our Class E runs from 1500/2500' (or 700' AGL, whichever is higher) up to 6000'. After that it's Class D up to FL245, then Class B. Out to 10d from the field it's Class D SFC-FL245.
TMA environment, Radar at all levels.
What is it about Class E that's going to cause you such a problem? Is it treated differently down there to in the UK?
TMA environment, Radar at all levels.
What is it about Class E that's going to cause you such a problem? Is it treated differently down there to in the UK?
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Spodman;
In the US class E can start at the ground or at 700 feet and at 1200 feet <G>. Just depends on the situation and then goes up to but not including FL180. We don't need any sort of radar coverage to separate or clear aircraft. Lord knows that we would have a lot of areas that would ban aircraft <G>. Austrailia would have a very tough time of it too...
regards
In the US class E can start at the ground or at 700 feet and at 1200 feet <G>. Just depends on the situation and then goes up to but not including FL180. We don't need any sort of radar coverage to separate or clear aircraft. Lord knows that we would have a lot of areas that would ban aircraft <G>. Austrailia would have a very tough time of it too...
regards
Mostly Harmless
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From: Oz (cold & wet bit)
Most informative thanks Scott. I am interested in this topic also, and have been trying to make sense of how you do it from AIM and your ATC handbook.
Having IFR flights effectively contained within controlled airspace seems rather restrictive to us Australians, outside radar coverage anyhow. Are there many delays for the flights concerned? Does separation between arriving and departing flights keep aircraft on the ground or holding at all?
Complicated crossing situations with aircraft climbing and descending sometimes lead to clearances not being available here, conflictions fixed by pilots in underlying G, What do you do when the crap hits the fan?
AUS ATC,you should never listen to rumours...
Having IFR flights effectively contained within controlled airspace seems rather restrictive to us Australians, outside radar coverage anyhow. Are there many delays for the flights concerned? Does separation between arriving and departing flights keep aircraft on the ground or holding at all?
Complicated crossing situations with aircraft climbing and descending sometimes lead to clearances not being available here, conflictions fixed by pilots in underlying G, What do you do when the crap hits the fan?
AUS ATC,you should never listen to rumours...
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Howdy;
With places that don't have radar, we use procedural separation and that is pretty much one in and then one out... Delays can happen, but if the airport has any sort of traffic then there is usually a tower or approach control there. It doesn't really become much of a problem unless it is a little podunk airport and they decide to have a fly in there and the weather turns IFR <G>...
regards
With places that don't have radar, we use procedural separation and that is pretty much one in and then one out... Delays can happen, but if the airport has any sort of traffic then there is usually a tower or approach control there. It doesn't really become much of a problem unless it is a little podunk airport and they decide to have a fly in there and the weather turns IFR <G>...
regards
