Flight Sim 2002
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Flight Sim 2002
One to think about...
Microsoft’s Flight Sim 2002 comes with ATC chatter. For an additional £30, you can buy detailed scenarios of Heathrow, Gatwick, City, Luton and Stanstead, all NATS units. Microsoft is marketing these discs with ATC recordings from those units, which means it could be you.
Did NATS have any dealings with Microsoft to provide recordings (your words on the RT aren’t copyrighted I think) and if so, was there a financial agreement between the parties?
If NATS were involved in selling on the tapes, were we consulted?
If NATS weren’t involved, why not? There’s obviously a market for RT chatter and if copyright awarded, could have been a nice little earner.
How do you feel about your words being used as a heavily marketed aspect of a financial venture with no benefit to you?
Like I said, one to think about.
Microsoft’s Flight Sim 2002 comes with ATC chatter. For an additional £30, you can buy detailed scenarios of Heathrow, Gatwick, City, Luton and Stanstead, all NATS units. Microsoft is marketing these discs with ATC recordings from those units, which means it could be you.
Did NATS have any dealings with Microsoft to provide recordings (your words on the RT aren’t copyrighted I think) and if so, was there a financial agreement between the parties?
If NATS were involved in selling on the tapes, were we consulted?
If NATS weren’t involved, why not? There’s obviously a market for RT chatter and if copyright awarded, could have been a nice little earner.
How do you feel about your words being used as a heavily marketed aspect of a financial venture with no benefit to you?
Like I said, one to think about.
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Oh dear...
Big Bad Microsoft...
Just think what you could do with all those hard earned royalties from your fantastic RT, Of course you would have to split any profits 50-50 with the aircrews! ...and what would happen to the taped telephone conversations btwn units? I'm pretty sure I saw a pirate copy on ATCNapster!
It provides me with seconds of entertainment to see people such as yourself starting threads about things they know nowt.
Yes can buy detailed sceneries of these fine airports, not of the NATS units.
Please send me the link so I may observe this for myself..or do you mean this
www.uk2000scenery.com
Very good scenery by a gentleman named Gary Summons (I am happy to be corrected but I dont belive Mr Summons is connected with MS in any way).
As for the ATC recordings, several Flight Simulator sites have available for download R/T chatter for ambience, not only the pinnacle of ATC that is NATS, but from many centres around the world, and I have never seen MS selling them.
Another day, another thread that has not allowed the facts or common sense to to come within 5 miles of it.
.....what exactly would that be then make a muppit out yourself....
Big Bad Microsoft...
Just think what you could do with all those hard earned royalties from your fantastic RT, Of course you would have to split any profits 50-50 with the aircrews! ...and what would happen to the taped telephone conversations btwn units? I'm pretty sure I saw a pirate copy on ATCNapster!
It provides me with seconds of entertainment to see people such as yourself starting threads about things they know nowt.
you can buy detailed scenarios of Heathrow, Gatwick, City, Luton and Stanstead, all NATS units
Microsoft is marketing these discs with ATC recordings from those units, which means it could be you.
www.uk2000scenery.com
Very good scenery by a gentleman named Gary Summons (I am happy to be corrected but I dont belive Mr Summons is connected with MS in any way).
As for the ATC recordings, several Flight Simulator sites have available for download R/T chatter for ambience, not only the pinnacle of ATC that is NATS, but from many centres around the world, and I have never seen MS selling them.
Another day, another thread that has not allowed the facts or common sense to to come within 5 miles of it.
Trust me, I've done this before...
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TT,
I don't think the link you've posted is the software Muppit is talking about.
I've seen the aforemention stuff for sale in the usual PC shops in this part of the world. It definitely says on the box that it uses r/t recorded live from the airfield concerned. There are CD's available for Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton etc etc.
I believe it's actually illegal to listen to airband scanners in the UK so I suppose one has to assume official permission from someone was received to use the r/t recordings. If not.....
Now I'll have to buy one to see if I'm on it
WF.
I don't think the link you've posted is the software Muppit is talking about.
I've seen the aforemention stuff for sale in the usual PC shops in this part of the world. It definitely says on the box that it uses r/t recorded live from the airfield concerned. There are CD's available for Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton etc etc.
I believe it's actually illegal to listen to airband scanners in the UK so I suppose one has to assume official permission from someone was received to use the r/t recordings. If not.....
Now I'll have to buy one to see if I'm on it
WF.
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I believe that if our voices are used then our legal people might like to talk to Peter Tishma of the company called Papa Tango/World Airline Simulation.
He's quite used to dealing with legal complaints
Mind you , he's not the first to use real RT.
Wilcopub , a Belgium Company , uses samples of the old Pole Hill Sector in its Airport 2000 program.
Fame at last!
He's quite used to dealing with legal complaints
Mind you , he's not the first to use real RT.
Wilcopub , a Belgium Company , uses samples of the old Pole Hill Sector in its Airport 2000 program.
Fame at last!
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TT,
Looks like you forgot to take your omnipotent pill and jumped in with both size 12's "before checking the facts...!"
The units mentioned, as you quite rightly said, are airports (they're big things that live outside your big green screen) but as the thread is about ATC, and the CD's lean heavily on ATC chatter, then they are refered to in the terms of NATS Units.
I don't have a link to the related sites as I saw these in the shops (You find them outside as well..!)
...and as a Tower ATCO, I use 2.5nm!
Perhaps I'll change the ending to say:
"Get rid of the chip and relax. It'll help you live longer"
[ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: Muppit ]
Looks like you forgot to take your omnipotent pill and jumped in with both size 12's "before checking the facts...!"
The units mentioned, as you quite rightly said, are airports (they're big things that live outside your big green screen) but as the thread is about ATC, and the CD's lean heavily on ATC chatter, then they are refered to in the terms of NATS Units.
I don't have a link to the related sites as I saw these in the shops (You find them outside as well..!)
Another day, another thread that has not allowed the facts or common sense to to come within 5 miles of it.
Perhaps I'll change the ending to say:
"Get rid of the chip and relax. It'll help you live longer"
[ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: Muppit ]
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Fantastic - I'll expect an appearance and royalties cheque in my locker tomorrow morning the shall I?
If anyone out there wants me to do a bit of hot and saucy R/T action for them - get your people to call my people, my people will call me and I'm sure some amicable and mutually beneficial agreement can be reached? I'll even include my trademark "errrrrrr"'s, my northern lilt, and my wonderfully cheery "hullo"s, "so long"s, "see you agains" and "good byes".
Do we get extra for, say, passing on important football scores during important international games, or for cracking jokes, or for trying to chat up the rather sexy sounding female PNF.
You could have an "avoiding action given" fee akin to the modern footballers contract that would make up for any loss if suspension of licence that may occur
Seriously, listening to airband transmissions by unauthorised bods is strictly illegal under the provisions of the Wireless and Telegraphy act of 1949 so if these naughty naughty people have used this method to record R/T then they are very silly indeed. Unless of course they are licenced in some way. But what about the people who are buying the software - are they breaking the WT act by proxy I wonder?
Around six months ago I dealt with a request from a company who were making a JAR video or something and wanted to use R/T from my unit in it with a script also. After checking with the relevant management bods the answer was - yes we will provide you with recordings and whatever else you want - but for a rather hefty price.
So maybe NATS have made some sort of profit from this product?
Therefore, I want my share!
Must remember to start posing on the R/T
If anyone out there wants me to do a bit of hot and saucy R/T action for them - get your people to call my people, my people will call me and I'm sure some amicable and mutually beneficial agreement can be reached?
I'll even include my trademark "errrrrrr"'s, my northern lilt, and my wonderfully cheery "hullo"s, "so long"s, "see you agains" and "good byes".Do we get extra for, say, passing on important football scores during important international games, or for cracking jokes, or for trying to chat up the rather sexy sounding female PNF.
You could have an "avoiding action given" fee akin to the modern footballers contract that would make up for any loss if suspension of licence that may occur
Seriously, listening to airband transmissions by unauthorised bods is strictly illegal under the provisions of the Wireless and Telegraphy act of 1949 so if these naughty naughty people have used this method to record R/T then they are very silly indeed. Unless of course they are licenced in some way. But what about the people who are buying the software - are they breaking the WT act by proxy I wonder?
Around six months ago I dealt with a request from a company who were making a JAR video or something and wanted to use R/T from my unit in it with a script also. After checking with the relevant management bods the answer was - yes we will provide you with recordings and whatever else you want - but for a rather hefty price.
So maybe NATS have made some sort of profit from this product?
Therefore, I want my share!
Must remember to start posing on the R/T
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Nf01,
As far as I know, [which could be B* all],
LISTENING to ATC R/T, Police band etc is not illegal per se. BUT, IF you make use of the information, then that is a different chip pan
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
As far as I know, [which could be B* all],
LISTENING to ATC R/T, Police band etc is not illegal per se. BUT, IF you make use of the information, then that is a different chip pan
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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There they go Chiglet....the made use of what they heard. For commercial purposes. Holy wireless Batman! There is a market for R/T chatter. If I had known that I would have spent my off hours chattering into a tape recorder and selling it to the higherst bidder. Must one be an actor's union member to do this? The left is my good side.
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I wouldn't put it past Nats to sell anything!!!
A few years ago I was getting all sorts of junk mail and phone calls.
When I questioned one caller as to where he got my details from, he said my caring, sharing employer sells lists of staff details to agencies who then sell them on. Much better than using the random nature of a phone directory.
Mail was the same - I sneakily changed part of my post code for Nats use only, and continued to get junk mail with the corrupt postcode.
The Data Protection Act may have stopped a lot of this now though.
Adverts for Microsoft will auto-run soon if there has been a pause in TX's for more than 5 seconds.
Each sector should appoint a marketing manager to bid for contracts. How about a tired old CSC with nothing to do after Jan 27???
A few years ago I was getting all sorts of junk mail and phone calls.
When I questioned one caller as to where he got my details from, he said my caring, sharing employer sells lists of staff details to agencies who then sell them on. Much better than using the random nature of a phone directory.
Mail was the same - I sneakily changed part of my post code for Nats use only, and continued to get junk mail with the corrupt postcode.
The Data Protection Act may have stopped a lot of this now though.
Adverts for Microsoft will auto-run soon if there has been a pause in TX's for more than 5 seconds.
Each sector should appoint a marketing manager to bid for contracts. How about a tired old CSC with nothing to do after Jan 27???
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In reply to TrafficTraffic and others, the add-ons referred to are by World Air Simulation and are of the following airports: LHR, LGW, LCY, Stansted, Birmingham, and Vienna. They appear to be scenery plus recorded "real ATC". Apart from Vienna they are all indeed NATS units, but possibly this is a co-incidence, as they are all fairly major units.
I haven't heard them but I'm dying to know if any of my mates at the above units are featured! Anybody recognise themselves?
I'm also very curious to know whether NATS management are aware of them. We know management keep an eye on this forum....any managers care to comment, or indeed find out if the controllers concerned are due a fee??!!
I haven't heard them but I'm dying to know if any of my mates at the above units are featured! Anybody recognise themselves?
I'm also very curious to know whether NATS management are aware of them. We know management keep an eye on this forum....any managers care to comment, or indeed find out if the controllers concerned are due a fee??!!
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The URL for the company concerned is www.worldairsim.com
However, their website is not current and you have to hunt around a bit to find the products mentioned above. The CD-ROMs contain detailed scenery of the airports detailed previously in this thread, together with appropriate 'realistic' flight models (e.g. GO 737s on the Stansted disk) and digitised R/T chatter, both background and interactive ATC instructions to your specific flight. All very clever, but was NATS consulted.
I asked this very question to my line-manager at the beginning of the week, but have not yet had a reply.
In addition to the airport CD-ROMs there is also a CD-ROM available, which I believe is called ATC2002, that has the R/T chatter as recorded in various TMA sectors throughout TC.
Whilst the debate is on-going, I happen to know that Santa will be dropping a couple of the offending CD-ROMs down my chimney this Christmas to satisfy my passionate simulator demands!
Ho, Ho, Ho.
However, their website is not current and you have to hunt around a bit to find the products mentioned above. The CD-ROMs contain detailed scenery of the airports detailed previously in this thread, together with appropriate 'realistic' flight models (e.g. GO 737s on the Stansted disk) and digitised R/T chatter, both background and interactive ATC instructions to your specific flight. All very clever, but was NATS consulted.
I asked this very question to my line-manager at the beginning of the week, but have not yet had a reply.
In addition to the airport CD-ROMs there is also a CD-ROM available, which I believe is called ATC2002, that has the R/T chatter as recorded in various TMA sectors throughout TC.
Whilst the debate is on-going, I happen to know that Santa will be dropping a couple of the offending CD-ROMs down my chimney this Christmas to satisfy my passionate simulator demands!
Ho, Ho, Ho.
Niteflite 01 is correct in his assessment
with regard to the Wireless Telegraphy
Act 1949 (WT Act). Anyone who intends to listen to radio transmissions
should be aware of the following: A licence is not required for a radio
receiver as long as it is not capable of transmission as well (The Wireless
Telegraphy Apparatus (Receivers) (Exemption) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989
No 123). The exception to this is that it is an offence to listen to unlicensed
broadcasters (pirates) without a licence. Licences are not issued for this
purpose. Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other
receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant
for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur
and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio and weather
and navigation broadcasts. It is an offence to listen to any other radio
services unless you are authorised by the Secretary of State to do so.
There are two offences under law: Under Section 5(b) of the WT Act 1949
it is an offence if a person "otherwise than under the authority of the
Secretary of State or in his duty as a servant of the Crown", either: i)
uses any wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information
as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message whether sent by
means of wireless telegraphy or not, which neither the person using the
apparatus nor any person on whose behalf he is acting is authorised by
the Secretary of State to receive; This means that it is illegal to listen
to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either
a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically
authorised to do so by the Secretary of State. or: ii) except in the course
of legal proceedings or for the purpose of any report thereof, discloses
any information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any such message,
being information which would not have come to his knowledge but for the
use of wireless telegraphy apparatus by him or by another person." This
means that it is also illegal to tell a third party what you have heard.
With certain exceptions, it is an offence under Section 1 of the Interception
of Communications Act 1985 if a person- "intentionally intercepts a communication
in the course of its transmission by post or by means of a public telecommunications
system." This means that it is also illegal to listen to telephone calls, including
mobile phone networks which are designated as forming part of the public
telecommunications system.
How the legislation is applied will depend on the individual circumstances of the offence.
Phew ! :-)
with regard to the Wireless Telegraphy
Act 1949 (WT Act). Anyone who intends to listen to radio transmissions
should be aware of the following: A licence is not required for a radio
receiver as long as it is not capable of transmission as well (The Wireless
Telegraphy Apparatus (Receivers) (Exemption) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989
No 123). The exception to this is that it is an offence to listen to unlicensed
broadcasters (pirates) without a licence. Licences are not issued for this
purpose. Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other
receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant
for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur
and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio and weather
and navigation broadcasts. It is an offence to listen to any other radio
services unless you are authorised by the Secretary of State to do so.
There are two offences under law: Under Section 5(b) of the WT Act 1949
it is an offence if a person "otherwise than under the authority of the
Secretary of State or in his duty as a servant of the Crown", either: i)
uses any wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information
as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message whether sent by
means of wireless telegraphy or not, which neither the person using the
apparatus nor any person on whose behalf he is acting is authorised by
the Secretary of State to receive; This means that it is illegal to listen
to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either
a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically
authorised to do so by the Secretary of State. or: ii) except in the course
of legal proceedings or for the purpose of any report thereof, discloses
any information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any such message,
being information which would not have come to his knowledge but for the
use of wireless telegraphy apparatus by him or by another person." This
means that it is also illegal to tell a third party what you have heard.
With certain exceptions, it is an offence under Section 1 of the Interception
of Communications Act 1985 if a person- "intentionally intercepts a communication
in the course of its transmission by post or by means of a public telecommunications
system." This means that it is also illegal to listen to telephone calls, including
mobile phone networks which are designated as forming part of the public
telecommunications system.
How the legislation is applied will depend on the individual circumstances of the offence.
Phew ! :-)
