RVSM questions
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Check 6, as you say state aircraft are for military, police and customs. This is irrespective of the state being overflown (eg French military are exempt over germany etc.) What about when charter flights are flying military, are they exempt and why? they can't use it normally so why should they now?
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Join Date: May 2000
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ATCOs, here is the latest. On a flight from Naples to/from Ramstein, Germany, the Italian, Swiss, and German controllers assigned us FL380 and FL390 without hesitation.
Thanks to all concerned. The final test will be an overflight of France.
Thanks to all concerned. The final test will be an overflight of France.
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Interesting thread. We were discussing this very evening at LATCC(Mil) whether RVX applies to foreign mil or not, and now we have the answer. Might have known the French would enter into the equation.
On another point, there is no reason why a non-RVSM aircraft should block 2 opposite direction levels. Reverse the semi-circular system for non-RVSM aircraft and you only block one opposite direction level, the one it is occupying. I know capacity will still be lost, especially at route crossing points, but it's an improvement.
Another anomaly, 2 RVSM approved aircraft flying in formation are given non-RVSM status and therefore block 3 levels. Split them and they only block 2 levels. Something aircrew might like to consider if a formation is not operationally necessary.
Just my idle brain rambling,. .Good luck on the next sortie, Check 6.. .Or should I say "Bon chance" <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .MM
On another point, there is no reason why a non-RVSM aircraft should block 2 opposite direction levels. Reverse the semi-circular system for non-RVSM aircraft and you only block one opposite direction level, the one it is occupying. I know capacity will still be lost, especially at route crossing points, but it's an improvement.
Another anomaly, 2 RVSM approved aircraft flying in formation are given non-RVSM status and therefore block 3 levels. Split them and they only block 2 levels. Something aircrew might like to consider if a formation is not operationally necessary.
Just my idle brain rambling,. .Good luck on the next sortie, Check 6.. .Or should I say "Bon chance" <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .MM
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Excuse me butting into this thread, but what is RVSM? I am a helicopter pilot so spend most of my time low level. I heard a controlling querying a F/W the other day asking if he was RVSM equipped and i had never heard this term before. A short explaination would be appreciated.
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RVSM = Reduced Vertical Separation Minima
i.e. the ability to separate suitably equipped aircraft by 1000' above FL290 instead of the usual 2000'.
[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: 1261 ]</p>
i.e. the ability to separate suitably equipped aircraft by 1000' above FL290 instead of the usual 2000'.
[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: 1261 ]</p>
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Coalface, RVSM is Reduced Vertical Separation, i.e. 1000 feet separation at higher levels vs. the usual 2000 feet.
Over most of Europe, this occurs at FL290 to and including FL410, i.e. separation is now reduced to 1000 feet.
To make this happen, both the aircraft, and the pilots must be certified to conduct flight in RVSM airspace.
"State Aircraft" are exempt from the certification, however, 2000 feet separation must then be provided, or the appropriate horizontal separation.
I hope this simple explanation helped.
Over most of Europe, this occurs at FL290 to and including FL410, i.e. separation is now reduced to 1000 feet.
To make this happen, both the aircraft, and the pilots must be certified to conduct flight in RVSM airspace.
"State Aircraft" are exempt from the certification, however, 2000 feet separation must then be provided, or the appropriate horizontal separation.
I hope this simple explanation helped.
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Masor - using an ODL does block just the one level but you have to be very wary with catch up traffic and the b***ers always meet crossing traffic which means that you cannot use the 2 levels immediately above and below the one you have allocated. All in all it is pretty difficult ane needs a lot of monitoring. That is something we are constantly taught we should not do.
Set it up safe and it should remain that way. Set it up with the intention to monitor and we end up with a distraction and a loss of separation.
Do you wonder in high traffic leves why we are reluctant to even start the process by allowing non RVSM into the airspace ?
. . <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Set it up safe and it should remain that way. Set it up with the intention to monitor and we end up with a distraction and a loss of separation.
Do you wonder in high traffic leves why we are reluctant to even start the process by allowing non RVSM into the airspace ?
. . <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Here is the latest ladies and gentleman ATCO's. We are consistently allowed into RVSM airspace by Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, and a few others.
We are consistently NOT ALLOWED into RVSM airspace by the FRENCH ATC, including the small stretch along UM603 between Sardinia and Menorca. And this is while cruising at FL400 upon entering French airspace.
Thanks to all who help us.
I detect a pattern here.
We are consistently NOT ALLOWED into RVSM airspace by the FRENCH ATC, including the small stretch along UM603 between Sardinia and Menorca. And this is while cruising at FL400 upon entering French airspace.
Thanks to all who help us.
I detect a pattern here.
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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Madbird. .. .There are exemptions in the NAT actually.. .. .Non RVSM aircraft are permitted to climb or descend through RVSM airspace to reach a cruising level outside the RVSM band.. .. .Or, a reservation can be granted to permit non RVSM to transit the NAT at RVSM airspace in certain scenarios.. .. .Delivery from manufacturer to State of Registry, or,. .. .In the case of RVSM equipment failure where the aircraft is being ferried to maintenance for repair or reapproval, or,. .. .Aircraft on mercy or humanitarian flights. . . . . <small>[ 03 March 2002, 18:58: Message edited by: 10W ]</small>
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It is simply not allowed to let non-approved acft into RVSM airspace, and that makes sense. In the first days of RVSM we let a non-approved Citation X get through it, pushed her way up to FL450 where nobody else flies. (Except the other Citation-X coming the other way, a few Gulfstreams, some Lears, occasionally Falcons.... you´re not all alone up there, believe me!). .We and our neighbouring Center had no problems with that. But we put the controllers near the destination of our highflying Cessna into deep **** because he had to get her down through RVSM airspace, needing twice as much separation as for all others.. .We will never do that again, it is almost impossible if not during nighthours with very little traffic.
