No pay for December?
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And on that note 5milesbaby!!! I can't recall the last time I saw anyone from LATCC plugged in alongside me at MACC either yet a good number of you down there treat us as public enemy number one on the phones!!!
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M29ATT, Christ ,here we are in the middle of a financial crisis and all you can do is moan about the lack of LATCC staff doing liaison visits!!
You may not be aware but there's a thing called OCT going on which tends to take up most peoples' time off. eg. only 1 full weekend off since March and have just done 12 days with only 1 off in the middle.
In return, I can't remember seeing anyone coming down here despite 4 days off at the end of a cycle and less traffic to recover from.
Let's not turn this into fighting amongst us when there are major problems facing us all!!
You may not be aware but there's a thing called OCT going on which tends to take up most peoples' time off. eg. only 1 full weekend off since March and have just done 12 days with only 1 off in the middle.
In return, I can't remember seeing anyone coming down here despite 4 days off at the end of a cycle and less traffic to recover from.
Let's not turn this into fighting amongst us when there are major problems facing us all!!
'just another atco'
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Barrack Room Chat in the TC Ready Room the other day suggested the Unions had been informed that it was not going to be possible to pay staff before Xmas but payment would be made under the normal criteria on 27 December. Rumours continue to circulate about 3 January pay date but nothing substantiated. What a shame that TAG cannot 'manage' these rumours and give the troops some facts. Even if it was not good news, I would suggest that an 'informed' workforce would be less volatile than some of the 'extreme' contributors to this thread.
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Next left etc
I do not know what unit you work at however at ScACC "for example" Antrim sector should be manned by a S and a T controller most of the time it is bandboxed thus freeing up a spare controller to "do" a high level sector.If we worked to rule we would demand the Antrim Sector be fully manned and a high level sector would be one down therefore flow measures would have to be introduced therefore Airlines would winge.We as ATCO's would possibly get a better "spin" if we informed the press that we were manning sectors as agreed by management in WPP,at the moment we are making things work by our flexibillity.However our future does not look bright if some of the (new?)ATCO's need an explanation of how a work to rule could work.
Are we just going to roll over on our backs like my dog does when he is being totally submissive.I bet we could be very good at that (however I should imagine not many of us could lick our own b*ll*cks.
)
edited because I was concentrating on the last image instead of my spelling!!!
AyrTC
[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: AyrTC ]
I do not know what unit you work at however at ScACC "for example" Antrim sector should be manned by a S and a T controller most of the time it is bandboxed thus freeing up a spare controller to "do" a high level sector.If we worked to rule we would demand the Antrim Sector be fully manned and a high level sector would be one down therefore flow measures would have to be introduced therefore Airlines would winge.We as ATCO's would possibly get a better "spin" if we informed the press that we were manning sectors as agreed by management in WPP,at the moment we are making things work by our flexibillity.However our future does not look bright if some of the (new?)ATCO's need an explanation of how a work to rule could work.
Are we just going to roll over on our backs like my dog does when he is being totally submissive.I bet we could be very good at that (however I should imagine not many of us could lick our own b*ll*cks.
)edited because I was concentrating on the last image instead of my spelling!!!
AyrTC
[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: AyrTC ]
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A better spin if
I think if you start saying things like that you'll have the public wondering why things aren't done as agreed already. It's not going to do a lot for public confidence if you let out sound bites like that out of context.
Hate to repeat myself a bit but perhaps 'our' future appears bleak because we're going to have to join the real world.
Get real!
we informed the press that we were manning sectors as agreed by management in WPP,at the moment we are making things work by our flexibillity
However our future does not look bright if some of the (new?)ATCO's need an explanation of how a work to rule could work.
Get real!
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AyrTC, I assume that when you say Antrim is bandboxed, you mean that 1 person does S&T?.
If that is correct, then I would suggest that you are your own worst enemies in letting management get away with that type of staffing. If there are not enough staff then you should all insist on flow being imposed and sectors staffed correctly.
At LATCC this year sectors have been regularly closed due to staff shortages. I'm sure the airlines aren't too happy about this, but when was the last time they got a B757 airborne with only 1 flight deck????.
No we shouldn't roll over & die ,but we must get our own house in order first.
Off to do my double nights now-no calls until Monday lunchtime!!
If that is correct, then I would suggest that you are your own worst enemies in letting management get away with that type of staffing. If there are not enough staff then you should all insist on flow being imposed and sectors staffed correctly.
At LATCC this year sectors have been regularly closed due to staff shortages. I'm sure the airlines aren't too happy about this, but when was the last time they got a B757 airborne with only 1 flight deck????.
No we shouldn't roll over & die ,but we must get our own house in order first.
Off to do my double nights now-no calls until Monday lunchtime!!
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It isn't that management are putting pressure on us .It is just that the original P/E system with the Marconi Locus 16 system was years ahead of its time hence the flexibillity dogma that most Controllers have at ScACC.I was just trying to get across the point that in the past the flexibility of the P/E system was second to none.No Sector was overloaded due to one person
doing the sector ,however the other "person" was still in the ops room helping out another busy sector.
Unless you have worked the system it is hard to describe.However if we did work to rule management would have a staffing nightmare.I would also point out that a/c have never been in danger by one person doing P/E.The onus is on the sector controller to ask for a "P" man when it gets busy.
AyrTC.
ps It is lucky that the Locus 16 was so ahead of its time or we would be really knackered at the moment.
doing the sector ,however the other "person" was still in the ops room helping out another busy sector.
Unless you have worked the system it is hard to describe.However if we did work to rule management would have a staffing nightmare.I would also point out that a/c have never been in danger by one person doing P/E.The onus is on the sector controller to ask for a "P" man when it gets busy.
AyrTC.
ps It is lucky that the Locus 16 was so ahead of its time or we would be really knackered at the moment.
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TC_LTN, if the unions have been told, then why do they not tell the members who pay their dues. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting and shameful on them if it is true! Who is trying to hide just what? This comment is made on the assumption that the unions have not issued an update on affairs for a good while!
Kenny and his hotline (As listened to this week) does not mention this post Xmas pay date?
As I have not been told to the contrary, I will expect to be paid as normal. If the union knows something and does not tell, it opens the doors for individuals to take their own action against their own union and this action could cost....? So on the basis that the rumour is correct and that we will not be paid until post Christmas, (NATS can quite legitimately do this, but custom and practice dictates otherwise). Can the union withhold this kind crucial info from its members?
As my annual pay award is due on Jan 1st 2002 courtesy of NATS previous/current management wisdom, events in the world will not distract me from seeking this. Are we all to seem happy getting paid for Jan 2002, be thankful for a job, be sorry for all the aviation related job losses, and then ditch the award to help PPP work?
Fireworks next weekend at a certain conference I hope!!
Seriously though, if this is soundly accurate, just what shape is our business in post Sept 11th. Very worrying. PPP has much to answer for!
Kenny and his hotline (As listened to this week) does not mention this post Xmas pay date?
As I have not been told to the contrary, I will expect to be paid as normal. If the union knows something and does not tell, it opens the doors for individuals to take their own action against their own union and this action could cost....? So on the basis that the rumour is correct and that we will not be paid until post Christmas, (NATS can quite legitimately do this, but custom and practice dictates otherwise). Can the union withhold this kind crucial info from its members?
As my annual pay award is due on Jan 1st 2002 courtesy of NATS previous/current management wisdom, events in the world will not distract me from seeking this. Are we all to seem happy getting paid for Jan 2002, be thankful for a job, be sorry for all the aviation related job losses, and then ditch the award to help PPP work?
Fireworks next weekend at a certain conference I hope!!
Seriously though, if this is soundly accurate, just what shape is our business in post Sept 11th. Very worrying. PPP has much to answer for!
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250 I wasn't refering to just now I mean ever!! We at Manchester did liason visits on a regular basis to other units before OCT and the financial situation. I have it from reliable source that when a watch manager from up here who moved down there, tried to arrange a visit to Manchester for his watch, he got no takers at all!! Even with all expenses paid! And your attitude to my post just confirms what I was saying!! I don't want to get in a fight or slanging match and agree we should all be pulling together, it is a team game, but what i was saying is the team you in AC seem to work with is one of your own,damn the consequences for everyone else!!! and unable to accept criticsm from other units while handing plenty out itself.
PS I am fully aware of OCT have wasted many days down there talking to 3 a/c per hour!!! whilst some student fresh from the college is sat next to me overloaded on the daventry feed!
I'll expect a rant back around Monday lunch time then!!! (Joke) Rant over
PS I am fully aware of OCT have wasted many days down there talking to 3 a/c per hour!!! whilst some student fresh from the college is sat next to me overloaded on the daventry feed!
I'll expect a rant back around Monday lunch time then!!! (Joke) Rant over
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Anyhow back to the original title of the thread if this rumour of 3rd of Jan is true that is surely a major breach of contract and the union should be acting on it now!!!! Will TAG/NATS be liable for any bank charges that are incurred due to there not being enough money in account's to pay mortgage payments etc?
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MACC29ATT:
Yes, it`s perfectly true, the WM in question got no takers at all. However, that was in no way due to any attitude to Manchester, but was, I am reliably informed, due almost entirely to the lack of regard towards the aforesaid WM. I believe the visit was to have taken place on days off which didn`t exactly help as most people have a life outside ATC.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: Loki ]
Yes, it`s perfectly true, the WM in question got no takers at all. However, that was in no way due to any attitude to Manchester, but was, I am reliably informed, due almost entirely to the lack of regard towards the aforesaid WM. I believe the visit was to have taken place on days off which didn`t exactly help as most people have a life outside ATC.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: Loki ]
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Thanks Loki for beating me to it. Would you seriously want to spend your days off doing this?. Imagine driving 80 miles up the M3 to get in a coach at LATCC to travel up the motorways for 4 hours and do the return a day later and no TOIL.
3 or 4 years ago we did try to get a LATCC/MACC liason group going but it fell beside the wayside very quickly. Anyway give it a couple of years and we'll all be in sunny Hampshire together and any crap presentation can be dealt with face to face.
On the subject of the salaries-where did all this come from. If you have the slightest doubt as to NATS ability to pay, I suggest you mob the GM's office until you get a satisfactory answer(or at MACC, maybe hijack his parking spot).
.
TAG got this PPP on the back of communication-let's start holding them to it.
3 or 4 years ago we did try to get a LATCC/MACC liason group going but it fell beside the wayside very quickly. Anyway give it a couple of years and we'll all be in sunny Hampshire together and any crap presentation can be dealt with face to face.
On the subject of the salaries-where did all this come from. If you have the slightest doubt as to NATS ability to pay, I suggest you mob the GM's office until you get a satisfactory answer(or at MACC, maybe hijack his parking spot).
.TAG got this PPP on the back of communication-let's start holding them to it.
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who or what is behind this scaremongering about getting paid.there were posts in september about banks pulling out of tag and no money avialable, we got paid,I got approx an extra £2oo this month for training, no mention of deferring this payment due lack of money,if I get paid on the 26 27 28 29 of december I do not care because it makes January a lot more easier to get through.Seriously where we are talking about people,s mortages loans etc, cut the rumours lets just deal with the facts
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No Scott....your not sick, well if you are, then I am too.
I think its called being Interested and Proud (but dont mention that 5 letter word around these blokes)
I think its called being Interested and Proud (but dont mention that 5 letter word around these blokes)
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TT
The word you're looking for is sad. Just like those who pay good money for a comfy seat on a plane then asked to be squashed into a jump seat for the duration.
Any, what's all this crap about us NATS staff not getting paid? Have you all got your heads up your arses or what?
I wish I had started this rumour, it's a corker.
How can you all be so gullible?
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: VectorLine ]
The word you're looking for is sad. Just like those who pay good money for a comfy seat on a plane then asked to be squashed into a jump seat for the duration.
Any, what's all this crap about us NATS staff not getting paid? Have you all got your heads up your arses or what?
I wish I had started this rumour, it's a corker.
How can you all be so gullible?
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: VectorLine ]
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Sorry to sound like a spotter, but I agree with Scott and TT....
I enjoy my job a great deal, and if that means investing a little of my own time and money from time to time, then so be it. I enjoy coming into work each (most) day (s); there's very little that management can do to change that!
Maybe Vectorline should suggest that his employers (whomever they may be) begin offering anger mangement courses - during work hours, of course - it sounds as if he could use one!!
I enjoy my job a great deal, and if that means investing a little of my own time and money from time to time, then so be it. I enjoy coming into work each (most) day (s); there's very little that management can do to change that!
Maybe Vectorline should suggest that his employers (whomever they may be) begin offering anger mangement courses - during work hours, of course - it sounds as if he could use one!!
