Non standard initial contact
Guest
Posts: n/a
Non standard initial contact
I am a PPL student, thats my excuse.
A few days ago we were approaching a control zone which it was our intention to transit. The idea was that I should gain confidence with r/t. What with one thing and another, when we came to approach the zone my instructor made the call, which went "callsign, request zone transit". To which the answer was, "callsign, sorry no service today". Which is fair enough, but when I got home I went through CAP413 and the very good Chris O'Malley book and could find no call in this format save for that for MATZ penetration, and this gave me cause for thought.
On the one hand, might a busy controller when presented with such a non standard call immeadately be able to decline a request, without having to listen to a full contact call and therefore saving the time of both controller and pilot?
On the other hand, might a controller think "This one does not know his r/t" and perhaps this will influence his /her decision to allow the request?
And for the record, I think my planning will take me around control zones where practicable, so that an overworked resource is not stretched further. However, part of my flight training requires me to be able to confidently make zone transits, and from a personal point of veiw, I would like to develop a confident, accurate and succinct r/t manner.
A few days ago we were approaching a control zone which it was our intention to transit. The idea was that I should gain confidence with r/t. What with one thing and another, when we came to approach the zone my instructor made the call, which went "callsign, request zone transit". To which the answer was, "callsign, sorry no service today". Which is fair enough, but when I got home I went through CAP413 and the very good Chris O'Malley book and could find no call in this format save for that for MATZ penetration, and this gave me cause for thought.
On the one hand, might a busy controller when presented with such a non standard call immeadately be able to decline a request, without having to listen to a full contact call and therefore saving the time of both controller and pilot?
On the other hand, might a controller think "This one does not know his r/t" and perhaps this will influence his /her decision to allow the request?
And for the record, I think my planning will take me around control zones where practicable, so that an overworked resource is not stretched further. However, part of my flight training requires me to be able to confidently make zone transits, and from a personal point of veiw, I would like to develop a confident, accurate and succinct r/t manner.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tallbloke:
I'm surprised that the controller didn't give you a reason for the denial. I can only assume that they were busy at that time. Maybe the controller was working two freq's or something.
Can you say where it was that this ocurred? You might get someone from that unit replying with a detailed response.
You could always phone the controller on landing if you were really perplexed. Just explain that you are a PPL trainee and they should help. Similarly, if the controller gave an excellent service let them know!
As for the R/T - don't be scared of it! Be confident and know what you are going to say and that will help the controller considerably. Poor R/T is the bain of a controllers life, but confidence is the easiest thing in the world to lose and the hardest thing to build up.
I'm surprised that the controller didn't give you a reason for the denial. I can only assume that they were busy at that time. Maybe the controller was working two freq's or something.
Can you say where it was that this ocurred? You might get someone from that unit replying with a detailed response.
You could always phone the controller on landing if you were really perplexed. Just explain that you are a PPL trainee and they should help. Similarly, if the controller gave an excellent service let them know!
As for the R/T - don't be scared of it! Be confident and know what you are going to say and that will help the controller considerably. Poor R/T is the bain of a controllers life, but confidence is the easiest thing in the world to lose and the hardest thing to build up.
Guest
Posts: n/a
As Bright-Ling says there could be many reasons for this response from lack of equipment due unseviceabilities or working another (UHF) frequency as well, which you probably won't hear.
As a rule, the best way to get on well with RT is to know what you're going to say BEFORE you key the mic. Keep it brief and to the point, if we need more info we'll ask for it. Just don't please tell the history of your flight on first call.
First call should be "XXX Approach GXXXX" After you receive a reply and as long as it wasn't "Standby"...
Tell us:
1 Callsign and type
2 Departure and destination points
3 Where and under what flight rules you want to enter and an estimate for the entry point.
It should go like this...
"GXXXX Tomahawk from Glasgow to Newcastle request VFR transit, entry at Polmont at time 45."
That's it! We'll do the rest.
Happy landings
[This message has been edited by cossack (edited 20 October 2000).]
As a rule, the best way to get on well with RT is to know what you're going to say BEFORE you key the mic. Keep it brief and to the point, if we need more info we'll ask for it. Just don't please tell the history of your flight on first call.
First call should be "XXX Approach GXXXX" After you receive a reply and as long as it wasn't "Standby"...
Tell us:
1 Callsign and type
2 Departure and destination points
3 Where and under what flight rules you want to enter and an estimate for the entry point.
It should go like this...
"GXXXX Tomahawk from Glasgow to Newcastle request VFR transit, entry at Polmont at time 45."
That's it! We'll do the rest.
Happy landings
[This message has been edited by cossack (edited 20 October 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
With due respect I think Cossack and Bright-Ling miss the point slightly. I have no problem with a controller rejecting a request, and I do not need an explanation if a request is refused, though I am sure it is helpful. I understand that they will do their best to help any pilot when they can. This is no way a dig such as "why didn't you let me in?"
My question is
oes such a call as described help the controller ie if it is busy the last thing you need is a long initial contact call, followed by a request you can not safely agree to. (I think it shows that the pilot understands that the controller maybe busy and so we cut to the chase).
Or, does the controller think that matey does not know his r/t?
My question is
oes such a call as described help the controller ie if it is busy the last thing you need is a long initial contact call, followed by a request you can not safely agree to. (I think it shows that the pilot understands that the controller maybe busy and so we cut to the chase).
Or, does the controller think that matey does not know his r/t?
Guest
Posts: n/a
The smiley is from a colon followed by a capital D
On a general point, and no criticism levelled personally at anyone here, more at the system, I have heard more problems caused in busy zones by poor RT than almost anything else.
Anyone else wish that there was still formal training and examination in RT?
On a general point, and no criticism levelled personally at anyone here, more at the system, I have heard more problems caused in busy zones by poor RT than almost anything else.
Anyone else wish that there was still formal training and examination in RT?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Talbloke
My instructor recommended I buy an airband radio.
Was v useful and , sadly, v interesting!!
Now get transits where others are asked to 'remain clear of controlled airspace.' Work on the KISS principle -Keep It Simple Stupid!
Good to think through your calls, even on the ground b4 u fly.
My instructor recommended I buy an airband radio.
Was v useful and , sadly, v interesting!!
Now get transits where others are asked to 'remain clear of controlled airspace.' Work on the KISS principle -Keep It Simple Stupid!
Good to think through your calls, even on the ground b4 u fly.
