Flexible Retirement Scheme to Go ??
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 45
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From: UK
Flexible Retirement Scheme to Go ??
Heard a nasty rumour today. As well as selling off all the unnecessary "clutter" within NATS, and concentrating on the main business of ATC, TAG are "urgently" seeking a meeting with IPMS to discuss this scheme.
Comments anyone ?? (Apart from "I didn't think it would be long in coming")
Comments anyone ?? (Apart from "I didn't think it would be long in coming")
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 210
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From: escaped from NERC
I'd be surprised to see the scheme finish so soon. After all, it is a relatively cheap way to get rid of expensive top-of-the-scale ATCOs, with relatively-limited skills (within the NERC context). That way the cost falls on the pension scheme which can well afford it. The alternatives are 1) retain the ATCO on high salary until age 60 in a role with limited flexibilty, or 2) make him/her redundant with the major costs involved for someone with 30+ years' service. I'd think that the scheme will remain until NERC has well-and-truly "bedded in" and management can see exactly what staff they can do without. There again, I could be wrong . . .
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: ATC
A short term solution to keep bums on seats, the retirement bulge would then be delayed by up to 5 years, add into this putting non-op ATCO's back in the seat you have a short sighted fix to a massive problem. Might then keep the banks happy though?
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13
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From: UK
I hope this is just a rumour.
We are people, not numbers who can be adjusted and played with to make the mathematics work.If The Airline group try and pull this on us, then people will vote with their feet. Either through industrial action or jobs elsewhere.
Again only a personal opinion. But then this topic is personal
We are people, not numbers who can be adjusted and played with to make the mathematics work.If The Airline group try and pull this on us, then people will vote with their feet. Either through industrial action or jobs elsewhere.
Again only a personal opinion. But then this topic is personal
Joined: Jun 2001
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The early retirement scheme is for those ATCO's that have put in a minimum amount of operational time. I forget the number of years. It is a fact that your health suffers from operational shift work. You tell me how many ATCO's have ever reached tha age of 60 whilst still doing Heathrow Approach. This scheme goes some way to compensate for all the stress. Please explain how a non productive desk driver earning no revenue for the company can possibly be subsidising the working ATCO.
NATS lives of the back of the ATCO's and its an insult for anybody to suggest a pen pusher is subsidising them.
NATS lives of the back of the ATCO's and its an insult for anybody to suggest a pen pusher is subsidising them.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 75
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From: LACC
Great Unmanaged,
Answer.
The Pension Scheme doesn`t subsidise the flexible retirement scheme, it is entirely funded by NATS plc.
That is why most ATCO`s fear our new bosses would like to get rid of it.
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: Big Nose1 ]
Answer.
The Pension Scheme doesn`t subsidise the flexible retirement scheme, it is entirely funded by NATS plc.
That is why most ATCO`s fear our new bosses would like to get rid of it.
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: Big Nose1 ]
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 45
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From: UK
Great Unmanaged, you seem to have a HUGE chip on your shoulder re ATCO's.
Tell you what - answer me this. Have YOU ever felt physically drained simply by sitting in a seat ?? Have YOU ever been frightened at your place of work ??
Whilst I admit that your job (probably "Tels" as you mentioned in another thread) is important, it is no-where near as stressful as that of an operational ATCO.
Thank about it ? Please ?
Tell you what - answer me this. Have YOU ever felt physically drained simply by sitting in a seat ?? Have YOU ever been frightened at your place of work ??
Whilst I admit that your job (probably "Tels" as you mentioned in another thread) is important, it is no-where near as stressful as that of an operational ATCO.
Thank about it ? Please ?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 45
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From: London and the South Coast
Hmmmmm. Touched one there eh....
The answer came from one of you, can't remember which. "Its not subsidised by the pension scheme, its subsidised by NATS" Thanks for that.
As for the "put on an electric hat and try it sometime" or "NATS lives off the backs of ATCO's" what a typical load of crap that is. Let us start a new religion then, should we.
I don't want to do your job, even if I could - you would not want to do mine. Even if you could.
Now seriously. I do my difficult job so that you can do your difficult job. Mutual respect would be nice as opposed to the world rotates around the ATCO's garbage that ruins any chance of true inter-grade/group teamwork.
The answer came from one of you, can't remember which. "Its not subsidised by the pension scheme, its subsidised by NATS" Thanks for that.
As for the "put on an electric hat and try it sometime" or "NATS lives off the backs of ATCO's" what a typical load of crap that is. Let us start a new religion then, should we.
I don't want to do your job, even if I could - you would not want to do mine. Even if you could.
Now seriously. I do my difficult job so that you can do your difficult job. Mutual respect would be nice as opposed to the world rotates around the ATCO's garbage that ruins any chance of true inter-grade/group teamwork.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 45
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From: London and the South Coast
Carbheat,
How chilled am I. I do (yes I do) appreciate the work that ATCO's do. I know a few and my cousin is one (poor cow). I know that the guts knot and that the job can be frightening. THAT is why I don't want to do it. However comma!
"Tels" that develop, monitor, maintain, create, the systems that you use are professionals too. Sleepless nights are commonplace worrying if they have done it right.
Its not only ATCO's that suffer stress. Imagine being a project manager in NATS for example. Crap management at every corner, impossible time-scales and budgets, poorly defined requirements because ATCO's are not available to put their £ worth in (comments please). 12 hour days with no OT. This is just one example and I know that it could never be as bad as being scared out of ones wits with 5000 passengers on frequency but, spare a thought. Good not god. 
How chilled am I. I do (yes I do) appreciate the work that ATCO's do. I know a few and my cousin is one (poor cow). I know that the guts knot and that the job can be frightening. THAT is why I don't want to do it. However comma!
"Tels" that develop, monitor, maintain, create, the systems that you use are professionals too. Sleepless nights are commonplace worrying if they have done it right.
Its not only ATCO's that suffer stress. Imagine being a project manager in NATS for example. Crap management at every corner, impossible time-scales and budgets, poorly defined requirements because ATCO's are not available to put their £ worth in (comments please). 12 hour days with no OT. This is just one example and I know that it could never be as bad as being scared out of ones wits with 5000 passengers on frequency but, spare a thought.
Good not god.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
Likes: 1
From: Berkshire, UK
Unmanaged. I still can't figure what you're on about - don't understand the banter old man. So we get early retirement... so do coppers... so do some airline pilots. There will always be somebody better off than oneself - I'm desperately envious of multi-millionaires but I'm othwise happy in my job and wouldn't change it! You call your ATCO cousin a "poor cow" - that's very nice, if I might say so. Has it not dawned upon you that she must have wanted to be an ATCO and probably thoroughly enjoys the job? If not she shouldn't be doing it. If you don't like your working conditions why not work with your union to get them changed or find another job?
As for office workers doing 12-hour days the word "barmy" springs to mind - and I really mean it. They're either workaholic or mad (same thing) and need to seriously consider what they're doing to themselves... and their families.
[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: HEATHROW DIRECTOR ]
As for office workers doing 12-hour days the word "barmy" springs to mind - and I really mean it. They're either workaholic or mad (same thing) and need to seriously consider what they're doing to themselves... and their families.
[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: HEATHROW DIRECTOR ]
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13
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From: UK
Great unmanaged. I can only gather from your posts that you are endeavouring to stoke the fire. Well thats fine this is a forum. So in repost let me add.
Whatever you think of ATCOs, we have good representation from our Unions, and in general we look after our common interests and if you like "Fight together". If you are annoyed, or feel unfairly treated because you do not get the breaks we do. Find youself a better union. But do not jibe at us because we are well enough organised to look after ourselves. You know the bottom line, number one is all that matters. We make sure of that.
Whatever you think of ATCOs, we have good representation from our Unions, and in general we look after our common interests and if you like "Fight together". If you are annoyed, or feel unfairly treated because you do not get the breaks we do. Find youself a better union. But do not jibe at us because we are well enough organised to look after ourselves. You know the bottom line, number one is all that matters. We make sure of that.