FIS on W5D
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Moon
FIS on W5D
Just to clear up something that was intimated on the EZE thread on rumours (and as quite rightly pointed out that we do not want to hijack that thread)
I have never known of an a/c to get a FIS only on the advisory route between Aberdeen and Shetland.
Also quite a lot of us "older" guys enjoy doing Moray.If you use to do North Scottish without radar then Moray with a few wide bodies thrown in is a breeze
.
Except when the fog rolls in of course
AyrTC
I have never known of an a/c to get a FIS only on the advisory route between Aberdeen and Shetland.
Also quite a lot of us "older" guys enjoy doing Moray.If you use to do North Scottish without radar then Moray with a few wide bodies thrown in is a breeze
.Except when the fog rolls in of course
AyrTC
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 474
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From: Ayrshire, Scotland
Pretty unlikely now with :-
a) The rules on displaying the sectors bandboxed and
b) The backup radar coverage at Aberdeen.
I have previously limited the service to FIS when bandboxed and possible conflicting military activity. Usually for en route northbound a/c and reinstated for the release to PB.
Probably the only time I would now consider it is with PB radar out and activity milling back and forth to D809N.
a) The rules on displaying the sectors bandboxed and
b) The backup radar coverage at Aberdeen.
I have previously limited the service to FIS when bandboxed and possible conflicting military activity. Usually for en route northbound a/c and reinstated for the release to PB.
Probably the only time I would now consider it is with PB radar out and activity milling back and forth to D809N.
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Northern Britain
AyrTC is right, Buzz. The service provided by Moray on W5D is a RAS - hence the name "Advisory Route". Off route, it's a RIS, while a FIS only seems to be given to off route VFR a/c or helis (correct me if I'm wrong Moray guys).
Moray seem all too happy to let us bored Scumburgh folk play outside 40 miles if we ask nicely. The W5D standing agreement says the transfer point to Slumburgh radar is at or outside 40 miles. The only tiny little gripe I would have is this is not usually complied with - but that is not a big issue.
The gap between Aberdeen 40 and the point where PB radar can work (we do have our limits) IS covered by a sector at ISZ, but that sector is called Helis, and so I would guess it is there to provide services to..... Helicopters (with the occasional low level fixed wing thrown in). The training backlog on that sector is big enough at the moment without throwing fixed wings in as well.
Methinks I here a loud BUZZing noise coming my way.
Moray seem all too happy to let us bored Scumburgh folk play outside 40 miles if we ask nicely. The W5D standing agreement says the transfer point to Slumburgh radar is at or outside 40 miles. The only tiny little gripe I would have is this is not usually complied with - but that is not a big issue.
The gap between Aberdeen 40 and the point where PB radar can work (we do have our limits) IS covered by a sector at ISZ, but that sector is called Helis, and so I would guess it is there to provide services to..... Helicopters (with the occasional low level fixed wing thrown in). The training backlog on that sector is big enough at the moment without throwing fixed wings in as well.
Methinks I here a loud BUZZing noise coming my way.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Moon
Concrete
More or less correct the priority on Moray is generally:
1st Radar control on UAR's
2nd RAS on ADR's especially at the WIK corner
3rd RIS in the FIR
4th FIS/Alerting sevice outside radar cover.
Priorities 2,3and 4 may vary due to workload Mil activity etc.
Hope this helps
AyrTC.
More or less correct the priority on Moray is generally:
1st Radar control on UAR's
2nd RAS on ADR's especially at the WIK corner
3rd RIS in the FIR
4th FIS/Alerting sevice outside radar cover.
Priorities 2,3and 4 may vary due to workload Mil activity etc.
Hope this helps
AyrTC.
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 324
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From: Near VTUU or EGPX
If you are not providing a Radar service on an Advisory Route, doesn't the service then become Air Traffic Advisory Service, and we are responsible for separating participating aircraft ?
Even though I lost North Scottish a while ago, I thought that would have to be the case so that releases and clearances can still be passed to the relevant airfields.
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: The Fat Controller ]
Even though I lost North Scottish a while ago, I thought that would have to be the case so that releases and clearances can still be passed to the relevant airfields.
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: The Fat Controller ]
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Scotland
The point I was trying to make was that if the aircraft went direct to PB/PM then you would give it a FIS. Every time I requested this, even for the first one out early in the morning, whether it was a northabout day over the pond or not, the reply was ALWAYS "If he can accept a FIS..". I would quite happily work the aircraft at FL70 under a RAS whether he was direct or on the advisory route.
I did notquestion whether you gave it a RAS on W5D, I would hope that you wouldn't give anything less, I questioned the service you would give the punter on a direct routing. The point that I was trying to make, perhaps rather obtusely, was that if it went direct under FL85, i.e. NOT ON W5D, then I would provide a RAS and not the FIS that you would probably give, and therefore provide the customer with a better service than you would offer. If I was allowed to, I would give the customer the service at FL130 whether he was on W5D or not. Don't you guys think it is a bit ridiculous that the aircraft leaves PD, gets transferred to you then comes back to the unit 50 miles later? When there is someone sitting there in the same ops room qualified to give it the service, I would have said it would be better to leave it on our frequencies and not bother you with it. Sorry forgot all about demarcation...
Concrete.
Nah can't be ar$ed mate.
I did notquestion whether you gave it a RAS on W5D, I would hope that you wouldn't give anything less, I questioned the service you would give the punter on a direct routing. The point that I was trying to make, perhaps rather obtusely, was that if it went direct under FL85, i.e. NOT ON W5D, then I would provide a RAS and not the FIS that you would probably give, and therefore provide the customer with a better service than you would offer. If I was allowed to, I would give the customer the service at FL130 whether he was on W5D or not. Don't you guys think it is a bit ridiculous that the aircraft leaves PD, gets transferred to you then comes back to the unit 50 miles later? When there is someone sitting there in the same ops room qualified to give it the service, I would have said it would be better to leave it on our frequencies and not bother you with it. Sorry forgot all about demarcation...
Concrete.
Nah can't be ar$ed mate.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 474
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From: Ayrshire, Scotland
Buzz - your sarcasm is showing.
Do we think it ridiculous that it leaves Aberdeen then talks to you later ? - Nope. In the bigger world that is quite common.
One of the problems you might face is doing it H24.
Still ATCO3s doing Area Services may be the future.
Do we think it ridiculous that it leaves Aberdeen then talks to you later ? - Nope. In the bigger world that is quite common.
One of the problems you might face is doing it H24.
Still ATCO3s doing Area Services may be the future.
