What makes a good SATCO
What makes a good SATCO
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
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From: Berkshire, UK
He has to have good management skills and remember that he is dealing with professionals. During my career I worked under many SATCOs - most in the UK. Some were excellent at their jobs; others were total prats. Same in all jobs though...
One important thing - unless he holds a current validation he should keep his nose out of the operational task!
One important thing - unless he holds a current validation he should keep his nose out of the operational task!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
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From: north
Fair point Silent handover,
I agree with HD about validation, my other ideas would be 1- Integrity
2 An ability to command respect
(whether you agree or disagree with decisions)
3 Sense of fair play and humour
4 An open door
5 Be excellent at job but honest enough to Know
limitations.
6 Never suffers from short arms and long pockets.
I'm sure I'll think of more but will that do for now
I agree with HD about validation, my other ideas would be 1- Integrity
2 An ability to command respect
(whether you agree or disagree with decisions)
3 Sense of fair play and humour
4 An open door
5 Be excellent at job but honest enough to Know
limitations.
6 Never suffers from short arms and long pockets.
I'm sure I'll think of more but will that do for now
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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From: OK (it's okay)
Career Managers
I'm of the opinion that all those qualities which make for an excellent controller -
the ability to make snap judgments
the ability to listen to what you need to hear and eliminate the rest
the ability to make solutions work, no matter how bad they are
the ability to communicate using the minimum amount of verbiage
the ability to emotionally distance oneself from what's going on around you
- all these qualities we admire in controllers, make for an absolutly terrible supervisor.
I used to find it frustrating that the people who tended to "rise" into supervisory positions were those who couldn't seperate the cheeks of ... well, you know the saying. As it happens, though, those people tended to be better supervisors, in most cases, than the hot-dog controllers who occasionally wormed their way into the woodwork.
In fact, I believe ATC would be better served by having a seperate "management career-track," apart from controllers. Hire MBAs, show them a bit about ATC, then let them use their skills to improve the profession.
ATCEA.com - it's good for you
the ability to make snap judgments
the ability to listen to what you need to hear and eliminate the rest
the ability to make solutions work, no matter how bad they are
the ability to communicate using the minimum amount of verbiage
the ability to emotionally distance oneself from what's going on around you
- all these qualities we admire in controllers, make for an absolutly terrible supervisor.
I used to find it frustrating that the people who tended to "rise" into supervisory positions were those who couldn't seperate the cheeks of ... well, you know the saying. As it happens, though, those people tended to be better supervisors, in most cases, than the hot-dog controllers who occasionally wormed their way into the woodwork.
In fact, I believe ATC would be better served by having a seperate "management career-track," apart from controllers. Hire MBAs, show them a bit about ATC, then let them use their skills to improve the profession.
ATCEA.com - it's good for you
aceatco, retired
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,431
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From: one airshow or another
In fact, I believe ATC would be better served by having a seperate "management career-track," apart from controllers. Hire MBAs, show them a bit about ATC, then let them use their skills to improve the profession.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm with vintage on this one. What you need is someone who understands the job and who either has a natural talent for good and fair management or who learns the craft in some way.
It's no better to hire MBAs and show them a bit about ATC than it is to have a controller who's shown a bit about management.
It takes several years training to become a good controller - it takes just as long to become a good manager (unless you happen to be one of those rare people with natural talent).
And I'm afraid that atcea's suggestion that those who are poor controllers and rise to supervisory levels tend to be ok at the latter is not borne out in my experience. I worked for a while with a dodgy controller who got promoted and became a very dodgy watch manager!
It's no better to hire MBAs and show them a bit about ATC than it is to have a controller who's shown a bit about management.
It takes several years training to become a good controller - it takes just as long to become a good manager (unless you happen to be one of those rare people with natural talent).
And I'm afraid that atcea's suggestion that those who are poor controllers and rise to supervisory levels tend to be ok at the latter is not borne out in my experience. I worked for a while with a dodgy controller who got promoted and became a very dodgy watch manager!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 488
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From: UK
'show them a bit about the job'
That has to be a joke and as for MBAs......another joke! British industry is full of bright young things with degrees and little else!Chiefs who know a little about the job and consequently make a mess of things.......what you need in most management jobs is knowledge, experience, integrity, honesty, good communications (including listening), discipline, delegation skills, ability to empathise, ability to use strengths and develop weaknesses, willingness to admit errors and set a sound example....amongst other things!
H49
That has to be a joke and as for MBAs......another joke! British industry is full of bright young things with degrees and little else!Chiefs who know a little about the job and consequently make a mess of things.......what you need in most management jobs is knowledge, experience, integrity, honesty, good communications (including listening), discipline, delegation skills, ability to empathise, ability to use strengths and develop weaknesses, willingness to admit errors and set a sound example....amongst other things!
H49
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
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From: Berkshire, UK
I saw a number of controllers "promoted out of trouble" to convince me that the system was wrong.. I'm talking people who couldn't handle the headset-job and got promoted to bonus-paying, suit-wearing, company-car, BUPA type management jobs..... and they often made a cock of that too.... but then there was nowhere else for them to go!
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Be strict but scrupulously fair, protect your staff from outside interference, don't lie and keep your word.
At the 5 units I've worked at, I've only worked for one ATSM who fulfills all those requirements, and although we didn't particularly see eye to eye on a personal level, I had great respect for him, and would be pleased to have him as my boss at my present unit.
At the 5 units I've worked at, I've only worked for one ATSM who fulfills all those requirements, and although we didn't particularly see eye to eye on a personal level, I had great respect for him, and would be pleased to have him as my boss at my present unit.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Dan,
SATCO and ATSM are fundementally the same thing, and although there may be airports that have both, I don't know of any.
I think it all comes down to the concept that SATCOs were managing ATS units anyway, and all around them, other supervisors in different airport departments were suddenly becoming "managers" and full of their own self importance, so why shouldn't SATCOs?
It probably started within NATS, and what's good for them is good for non NATS egos.
SATCO and ATSM are fundementally the same thing, and although there may be airports that have both, I don't know of any.
I think it all comes down to the concept that SATCOs were managing ATS units anyway, and all around them, other supervisors in different airport departments were suddenly becoming "managers" and full of their own self importance, so why shouldn't SATCOs?
It probably started within NATS, and what's good for them is good for non NATS egos.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,424
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From: LEEDS
Dan,
At LBA, the job went from SATCO to Manager Airfield Services to
Air Traffic Services Manager in the space of less than ten years and something like four different people. The bottom line is that whatever the job title, it's the personage in charge of ATC.
At LBA, the job went from SATCO to Manager Airfield Services to
Air Traffic Services Manager in the space of less than ten years and something like four different people. The bottom line is that whatever the job title, it's the personage in charge of ATC.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 222
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From: Southwest
Hi There,
Thanks for your replies...
My local is Bristol EGGD, I thought we had an ATSM and SATCO, as two separate people, I wont mention any names, but I know the ATSM, and I thought I knew who the SATCO was, but now Im confused as to whether its just the one person....can any of you Bristol guys answer "desperate Dan's" questions?
.
Dan.
Thanks for your replies...
My local is Bristol EGGD, I thought we had an ATSM and SATCO, as two separate people, I wont mention any names, but I know the ATSM, and I thought I knew who the SATCO was, but now Im confused as to whether its just the one person....can any of you Bristol guys answer "desperate Dan's" questions?
.Dan.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Didn't Coventry, under the Atlantique mafia, have both a SATCO (an validated operational ATCO) and an ATSM (a lady who, I am told but I never actually found out for real, was ex mil' with no civil qualifications), for quite a while?
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Anywhere
Didn't Coventry, under the Atlantique mafia, have both a SATCO (an validated operational ATCO) and an ATSM (a lady who, I am told but I never actually found out for real, was ex mil' with no civil qualifications), for quite a while?
Guest
Posts: n/a
There's no definitive answer. It all depends on the airport and how their managment is structured.
In some cases you'll find that the ATSM is responsible for all of the air traffic services (controllers, engineers, briefing staff) with managers beneath him or her looking after each discipline. You might find the person looking after the controllers is called the SATCO. On the other hand, you could find that the person who looks after everything is called the SATCO. The only way you'll find out who does what is to see the management structure of the organisation.
In some cases you'll find that the ATSM is responsible for all of the air traffic services (controllers, engineers, briefing staff) with managers beneath him or her looking after each discipline. You might find the person looking after the controllers is called the SATCO. On the other hand, you could find that the person who looks after everything is called the SATCO. The only way you'll find out who does what is to see the management structure of the organisation.