Airspace infringment at Luton
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Airspace infringment at Luton
On sunday morning, enroute from France to Duxford, a friend of mine got lost and flew within Luton class D without clearance ...Bad idea of course.
He was told ,after landing, that a mandatory occurence report was filed.
What does it mean ? and what will be the penalty ?
Can you help with informations ? it will keep french PPL's informed, and therefore improve safety.
I would also like to thank all the helpful controllers we contacted this day, especially the guy who called fowlmere airfield to check the Wx over there !
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Flying is not dangerous, crashing is
He was told ,after landing, that a mandatory occurence report was filed.
What does it mean ? and what will be the penalty ?
Can you help with informations ? it will keep french PPL's informed, and therefore improve safety.
I would also like to thank all the helpful controllers we contacted this day, especially the guy who called fowlmere airfield to check the Wx over there !
------------------
Flying is not dangerous, crashing is
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Hi PorcoRosso,
Whenever there is any accident, airprox, incident, alleged breach of air navigation legislation or serious airspace infringement, ATC will file an ATC Occurrence Report - CA1261 stating the facts of the incident. This is mandatory (hence the term MOR, Mandatory Occurrence Report). After appropriate local action and investigation has taken place, the report is forwarded to the Safety Investigation and Data Department (SDD) at CAA SRG Gatwick, who make their own enquiries. They may determine what further action to take with the pilot concerned. This may range from a strongly worded letter which remains on the licence file, to a requirement to undergo extra training, to revocation of the licence itself, depending on the severity of the incident.
In addition to this, further action may be taken for the most serious infringements of controlled airspace, and especially when the safety of commercial traffic has been compromised. This involves the filing of a form CA939, alleged Breach of Air Navigation Legislation. Again there will be an investigation, both locally and if thought appropriate, by the Aviation Regulation Enforcement Branch at CAA House. Radar, RTF and telephone recording and statements will be taken and used in evidence. If the ARE think it appropriate, a legal case will be brought at the Magistrates Court. If found guilty of a serious breach in a typical case the pilot may find himself around £3000 worse off!
ATCOs do not take such actions against a pilot lightly, but if safety is compromised we really have no alternative. If a pilot was genuinely lost, then this would be a mitigating factor, however the moral must
be : if you intend to fly anywhere near a major airport and you are in any way unsure of your position, immediately contact the nearest radar unit for assistance, or even 121.5. Hope this is useful.
Whenever there is any accident, airprox, incident, alleged breach of air navigation legislation or serious airspace infringement, ATC will file an ATC Occurrence Report - CA1261 stating the facts of the incident. This is mandatory (hence the term MOR, Mandatory Occurrence Report). After appropriate local action and investigation has taken place, the report is forwarded to the Safety Investigation and Data Department (SDD) at CAA SRG Gatwick, who make their own enquiries. They may determine what further action to take with the pilot concerned. This may range from a strongly worded letter which remains on the licence file, to a requirement to undergo extra training, to revocation of the licence itself, depending on the severity of the incident.
In addition to this, further action may be taken for the most serious infringements of controlled airspace, and especially when the safety of commercial traffic has been compromised. This involves the filing of a form CA939, alleged Breach of Air Navigation Legislation. Again there will be an investigation, both locally and if thought appropriate, by the Aviation Regulation Enforcement Branch at CAA House. Radar, RTF and telephone recording and statements will be taken and used in evidence. If the ARE think it appropriate, a legal case will be brought at the Magistrates Court. If found guilty of a serious breach in a typical case the pilot may find himself around £3000 worse off!
ATCOs do not take such actions against a pilot lightly, but if safety is compromised we really have no alternative. If a pilot was genuinely lost, then this would be a mitigating factor, however the moral must
be : if you intend to fly anywhere near a major airport and you are in any way unsure of your position, immediately contact the nearest radar unit for assistance, or even 121.5. Hope this is useful.
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ATC Two
Thank you for your quick and accurate answer.I think it's gonna be of great help to my friend, and very informative for the members of my flying club who plan to fly in UK (remember, we are french)
However, your answer raises another question.
You wrote, we can call on 121.5 if lost.
Will it be considered an emergency call (a mayday) or a pan pan business ?
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Flying is not dangerous, crashing is
Thank you for your quick and accurate answer.I think it's gonna be of great help to my friend, and very informative for the members of my flying club who plan to fly in UK (remember, we are french)
However, your answer raises another question.
You wrote, we can call on 121.5 if lost.
Will it be considered an emergency call (a mayday) or a pan pan business ?
------------------
Flying is not dangerous, crashing is
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Porco.....
121.5 will probably require a pan call - giving the following details:
Callsign, Aircraft Type, Departure airfield, Destination Airfield, Altitude, Nature of problem (Lost! (or temporarily unsure of your position!!)), and any useful line features etc.
The call will be answered by the Distress and Diversion (D&D) cell at the London Air Traffic Control Centre - who are Royal Air Force Controllers. They will use a triangulation system to pinpoint your spot - so any visual clues (roads, railways etc) would help).
Hopefully, a Military controller will join in here and give you the perfect answer!
Good luck - but never be afraid to use the service!
121.5 will probably require a pan call - giving the following details:
Callsign, Aircraft Type, Departure airfield, Destination Airfield, Altitude, Nature of problem (Lost! (or temporarily unsure of your position!!)), and any useful line features etc.
The call will be answered by the Distress and Diversion (D&D) cell at the London Air Traffic Control Centre - who are Royal Air Force Controllers. They will use a triangulation system to pinpoint your spot - so any visual clues (roads, railways etc) would help).
Hopefully, a Military controller will join in here and give you the perfect answer!
Good luck - but never be afraid to use the service!
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Not military but......
The triangulation system on 121.5 at D&D is really quite sophisticated now.
Assuming you are in radio coverage it shows your position (on a PC type display) overlaid on an Ordnance Survey map. The D&D controller can then zoom in and say things like "can you see the church to the south of you", or "do you see the motorway to the east" etc.
Very accurate. Lots of other pertinant information (airspace, airfields, etc) can be overlaid and headings to steer as required worked out.
As mentioned, never be afraid to use the service and if you are ever visiting LATCC, D&D are usually very happy to accomodate a visit from any pilots.
WF.
The triangulation system on 121.5 at D&D is really quite sophisticated now.
Assuming you are in radio coverage it shows your position (on a PC type display) overlaid on an Ordnance Survey map. The D&D controller can then zoom in and say things like "can you see the church to the south of you", or "do you see the motorway to the east" etc.
Very accurate. Lots of other pertinant information (airspace, airfields, etc) can be overlaid and headings to steer as required worked out.
As mentioned, never be afraid to use the service and if you are ever visiting LATCC, D&D are usually very happy to accomodate a visit from any pilots.
WF.
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I used D&D recently when 'temp unsure of position',..........yeh....lost! Stunned at the speed of response for a QDM!! Well done chaps and thanx!
However, blown off course recently towards and into a TMA I was not warned by the local radar but just handed over to the approach frequency for a bollocking....seemed a funny way of doing things.....
However, blown off course recently towards and into a TMA I was not warned by the local radar but just handed over to the approach frequency for a bollocking....seemed a funny way of doing things.....
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Yes, I agree with ATCO 2.
We are always digging aircraft out of CAS around us. We rarely file though because:
(1) The aircraft are normally spotted by us and external agencies before they become a hazard to others.
(2) More often than not, the pilot is apologetic.
To the person who went in inadvertantly a few months ago:
(1) Turning your transponder off is stupid because we have NO idea of your alt, and we can still see you on primary.
(2) We then traced you to where you were decending, and called that unit.
(3) Consequently, P***ed off controller then files on you!
Moral here is to never be afraid to ask for help. As mentioned earlier, controllers only tend to file if it is obvious safety infringement or you have really annoyed them.
If in doubt, speak up! It may save you getting prosecuted and if you are, may help your case!
Hope that is not too mercanery!
We are always digging aircraft out of CAS around us. We rarely file though because:
(1) The aircraft are normally spotted by us and external agencies before they become a hazard to others.
(2) More often than not, the pilot is apologetic.
To the person who went in inadvertantly a few months ago:
(1) Turning your transponder off is stupid because we have NO idea of your alt, and we can still see you on primary.
(2) We then traced you to where you were decending, and called that unit.
(3) Consequently, P***ed off controller then files on you!
Moral here is to never be afraid to ask for help. As mentioned earlier, controllers only tend to file if it is obvious safety infringement or you have really annoyed them.
If in doubt, speak up! It may save you getting prosecuted and if you are, may help your case!
Hope that is not too mercanery!
Guest
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Agree with the comments above. If your infringement has caused a "situation", then nothing will save you from the paperwork. If, however, there are no consequences then a suitably apologetic reaction often is perceived as enough. If you decide to argue about where you are/were, remember that our radar is probably more accurate than your map-reading (and is recorded), and reflects badly on your airmanship - it will almost always then cause paperwork to be filed.
