TWR assumed to be A/G
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TWR assumed to be A/G
Hello all,
I'm a ATCO at a small airfield handling, amongst other things, scheduled short-sector passenger flights (hence the need for ATC). On sunny days in particular, we also get reasonable numbers of light GA aircraft inbound to us and also to another airport nearby with which we coordinate closely, and to these and others we offer a FIS outside the ATZ. On all Sundays (when no commercial flights take place) the tower is manned by an A/G operator who announces himself clearly as 'XYS Radio' to avoid any confusion.
Unfortunately, despite subtle hints such as announcing ourselves as 'XYZ Tower' and giving unambigious instructions (joining and runway clearances etc.) a lot of these GA pilots seem to assume that we are only an A/G service, leading to frequent situations where the duty ATCO has to firmly assert their authority to maintain a safe situation, and a number of pilots when questioned say that they have seen 'XYS Radio' in the AIP/Pooleys entry and have managed to ignore the 'XYS Tower' entry just above it.
It's an annoying situation for the ATCO's here, but short of using the callsign 'XYS Tower - Air Traffic Control' on each initial contact, there doesn't seem to be a way to pre-empt any misunderstanding on the pilot's part. Does anyone have a similar experience?
DinD.
I'm a ATCO at a small airfield handling, amongst other things, scheduled short-sector passenger flights (hence the need for ATC). On sunny days in particular, we also get reasonable numbers of light GA aircraft inbound to us and also to another airport nearby with which we coordinate closely, and to these and others we offer a FIS outside the ATZ. On all Sundays (when no commercial flights take place) the tower is manned by an A/G operator who announces himself clearly as 'XYS Radio' to avoid any confusion.
Unfortunately, despite subtle hints such as announcing ourselves as 'XYZ Tower' and giving unambigious instructions (joining and runway clearances etc.) a lot of these GA pilots seem to assume that we are only an A/G service, leading to frequent situations where the duty ATCO has to firmly assert their authority to maintain a safe situation, and a number of pilots when questioned say that they have seen 'XYS Radio' in the AIP/Pooleys entry and have managed to ignore the 'XYS Tower' entry just above it.
It's an annoying situation for the ATCO's here, but short of using the callsign 'XYS Tower - Air Traffic Control' on each initial contact, there doesn't seem to be a way to pre-empt any misunderstanding on the pilot's part. Does anyone have a similar experience?
DinD.
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duncanindevon
Regret that a couple of examples need to be made, the word will get around quickly. That's a last resort.....first I suggest a polite and informative letter to several of the excellent publications and aviation bodies.....always try the friendly approach ......remember they are customers. RGDS.
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DinD - well done on getting a job mate........ they will respect your authority in the end! (at least you get to see the mighty Green and White week-in, week-out!)
Not had that in a tower.... but had it whilst on radar!!!
Not had that in a tower.... but had it whilst on radar!!!
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This is the obvious problem that you'll run into where there are different levels of service at one airport ... and, I guess, it's why the CAA discourage it.
How to fix it ...? Use the correct callsign suffix at all times (both TOWER and RADIO) and if a pilot appears unsure, call the pilot and ask for confirmation the he or she is aware that they are getting an ATC or AG service.
Drawback is that many pilots won't know the difference anyway!
How to fix it ...? Use the correct callsign suffix at all times (both TOWER and RADIO) and if a pilot appears unsure, call the pilot and ask for confirmation the he or she is aware that they are getting an ATC or AG service.
Drawback is that many pilots won't know the difference anyway!
niknak
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Hd old boy, you forget that when you were practising the dark art at London International Aerodrome, you almost certainly didnt have time to give a toss who was a paying customer and who wasn't. Get em on the localizer, keep them 3 miles apart and suddenly they become the problem of an overworked tower atco who stood in awe of you and daren't tell you to do anything different. 
Well, Duncan is talking about the type of pilot who has time to think but doesn't always do so at the same time as flying.
Show some mercy!
Well, Duncan is talking about the type of pilot who has time to think but doesn't always do so at the same time as flying.
Show some mercy!
aceatco, retired
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I practice (and I need the practice 
) all three disciplines (Tower/Info/Radio) and the problem I find is people receiving a Info/Radio service thinking it is ATC. I am afraid it is a fairly common problem pilots not understanding the differences between the three.
Pilot education? I have found Instructors who don't know the difference.
Can only suggest, duncanindevon, you try and speak to the miscreants and try and educated them. Probably work better than the big stick. But then, there is always the big stick. .
) all three disciplines (Tower/Info/Radio) and the problem I find is people receiving a Info/Radio service thinking it is ATC. I am afraid it is a fairly common problem pilots not understanding the differences between the three.Pilot education? I have found Instructors who don't know the difference.
Can only suggest, duncanindevon, you try and speak to the miscreants and try and educated them. Probably work better than the big stick. But then, there is always the big stick. .
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Hmmmm, I used to have a similar problem at my former airfield. Each pilot was swiftly dealt with and informed "G-XXXX, this is XX APPROACH, full ATC service." Took no time at all and saved a lot of headaches. Good luck!
Foxy
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Foxy:
Fine, but make the point in a non-agressive tone. All ATCOs are professionals, but most pilots (at fields which are sometimes A/G) are amateurs. The last thing you want to do is to discourage pilots from calling ATC. There are plenty of references in threads here to pilots who are nervous enough about talking to ATC.
VATCO - similarly, I'm sure that with 90% of pilots, just like 90% of people, a chat achieves a better overall result than a big stick
AA.
Fine, but make the point in a non-agressive tone. All ATCOs are professionals, but most pilots (at fields which are sometimes A/G) are amateurs. The last thing you want to do is to discourage pilots from calling ATC. There are plenty of references in threads here to pilots who are nervous enough about talking to ATC.
VATCO - similarly, I'm sure that with 90% of pilots, just like 90% of people, a chat achieves a better overall result than a big stick
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Hello DucaninDevon
I think Foxy Loxy had a good idea - i.e. when it is ATC tell them "G-XXXX, this is ZZ APPROACH, full ATC service - but it depends just how busy you are. An alternative might be to reverse Foxy's idea and tell them something like - "G-XXXX. this is ZZ Radio - Information Service Only."
Generally, in my experience, the friendly chat approach worked best so long as you can get the individual to either see you or 'phone in. However, please don't hesitate to report persistent offenders since it can (unfortunately) be the only way some people learn!
Presumably you have checked the entry in "Pooley's" - normally it is fine - but if you find a problem with the wording why not write to them and ask them to make it clearer?
Last thought - a little session with local pilots sometime might also help by getting them to spread the word.
Peatair
I think Foxy Loxy had a good idea - i.e. when it is ATC tell them "G-XXXX, this is ZZ APPROACH, full ATC service - but it depends just how busy you are. An alternative might be to reverse Foxy's idea and tell them something like - "G-XXXX. this is ZZ Radio - Information Service Only."
Generally, in my experience, the friendly chat approach worked best so long as you can get the individual to either see you or 'phone in. However, please don't hesitate to report persistent offenders since it can (unfortunately) be the only way some people learn!
Presumably you have checked the entry in "Pooley's" - normally it is fine - but if you find a problem with the wording why not write to them and ask them to make it clearer?
Last thought - a little session with local pilots sometime might also help by getting them to spread the word.
Peatair
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Thanks all for the replies - most days I try to feel nice and friendly towards the lost and the confused, but I suppose we all have days where we wish for a very long stick and a window at the front of the tower...
The problem we have is that there are only half a dozen private aircraft based here, so the vast majority are visitors who seem to have difficulty in finding the field, staying level and generally avoiding messy crashes - talking to them about the differences between various air traffic services usually results in the sort of look that says 'and you're telling me because...?'
Never mind - at least it's sunny today!
P.S. For all those that know me (or pretend not to) and for those that saw my heartfelt pleading for a job 8 months ago - despite the above whinging I am gainfully employed and very happy.
The problem we have is that there are only half a dozen private aircraft based here, so the vast majority are visitors who seem to have difficulty in finding the field, staying level and generally avoiding messy crashes - talking to them about the differences between various air traffic services usually results in the sort of look that says 'and you're telling me because...?'
Never mind - at least it's sunny today!
P.S. For all those that know me (or pretend not to) and for those that saw my heartfelt pleading for a job 8 months ago - despite the above whinging I am gainfully employed and very happy.
