Heading xxx DEGREES
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<<Generally I have found the American controllers (US and Canadian) are the briefest with RT, and the UK controllers at the other extreme, >>
That's a very interesting comment. An ex-colleague of mine who visited a very busy US ATC unit wrote in his report when he got back that if they employed UK R/T procedures they'd save a lot of time! I cannot accept that UK controllers are verbose - well, not in the airspace where I operated. It's far too busy for extraneous chat. The US ATC service does provide a huge amount of traffic information which the UK doesn't (not in Class A airspace) so that must increase the amount of R/T. Maybe a pilot would comment?
(Absolutely NO criticism intended of US controllers, for whom I have the very highest professional regard, but the guy said something and I'm responding).
That's a very interesting comment. An ex-colleague of mine who visited a very busy US ATC unit wrote in his report when he got back that if they employed UK R/T procedures they'd save a lot of time! I cannot accept that UK controllers are verbose - well, not in the airspace where I operated. It's far too busy for extraneous chat. The US ATC service does provide a huge amount of traffic information which the UK doesn't (not in Class A airspace) so that must increase the amount of R/T. Maybe a pilot would comment?
(Absolutely NO criticism intended of US controllers, for whom I have the very highest professional regard, but the guy said something and I'm responding).
Ohcirrej
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Bren, your comment about traffic information is correct. It seems to be the norm here in Canada to pass traffic information to both aircraft, even when they are in level flight and separated (I'm talking Class B and Class D here).
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AirNoServicesAustralia
I am sorry - the mistake is all mine! I typed "heading" when I meant to type "degrees" in my previous reply.
I think that DirtyPierre summed it up very nicely. Different operations, different requirements. What would be excessive in your operation is a useful extra safety net in the UK operation. Horses for courses and all that.
As for the "millibars" issue, again a useful safety net in a busy traffic environment. On the other hand, it is interesting that US controllers will read 29.98 to me (a Brit) as "altimeter 998" and I haven't yet set it as a QNH, so maybe NATS could give the Americans some more credit and omit the "milibars"?
If it was my train set, I would leave the "degrees" and "millibars" in.
G W-H
I am sorry - the mistake is all mine! I typed "heading" when I meant to type "degrees" in my previous reply.
I think that DirtyPierre summed it up very nicely. Different operations, different requirements. What would be excessive in your operation is a useful extra safety net in the UK operation. Horses for courses and all that.
As for the "millibars" issue, again a useful safety net in a busy traffic environment. On the other hand, it is interesting that US controllers will read 29.98 to me (a Brit) as "altimeter 998" and I haven't yet set it as a QNH, so maybe NATS could give the Americans some more credit and omit the "milibars"?
If it was my train set, I would leave the "degrees" and "millibars" in.
G W-H
Funnily enough I got caught out in the Middle East by omitting "millibars". A B747 skipper inbound to Sharjah set 29.98 inches instead of 998mb and bust his descent altitude of 2000ft. Got my heart racing and I have used the M-word ever since.
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Apart from the recalcitrant USA, where else in the world is inches used instead of hectopascals for barimetric pressure?
BTW, atmospheric pressure is actually measured in hectopascals not millibars.
BTW, atmospheric pressure is actually measured in hectopascals not millibars.
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I gave an instruction to a pilot to climb FL 230 and fly heading 320 degrees yesterday.
He started to read back "Climb FL 320 degrees and..." when he realised what he was saying and corrected to "Climb FL230, heading 320"
Just goes to show the procedure works.
Adding "degrees" doesn't exactly make my RT verbose and cuts out the possibilty of pilot confusion.
As mentioned above, and it is no criticism, but it's the american pilots who call up London Airways with their full life story and painfully slow readbacks, whereas the Europeans et al seem to stick to the short and to the point transmissions.
He started to read back "Climb FL 320 degrees and..." when he realised what he was saying and corrected to "Climb FL230, heading 320"
Just goes to show the procedure works.
Adding "degrees" doesn't exactly make my RT verbose and cuts out the possibilty of pilot confusion.
As mentioned above, and it is no criticism, but it's the american pilots who call up London Airways with their full life story and painfully slow readbacks, whereas the Europeans et al seem to stick to the short and to the point transmissions.
Last edited by Middle Earth; 2nd Aug 2004 at 09:53.
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In this "Global Community" where it is ever more common for flights to be covering 14+ hours of distance, what would it take to convert all Aviator, Aircraft and ATC units to one or the other?
I know that where I am (ATC), both inches and Hpa(Mb) are available from Met Display.
Surely it has to be a worth while consideration?
CD
I know that where I am (ATC), both inches and Hpa(Mb) are available from Met Display.
Surely it has to be a worth while consideration?
CD
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Jerricho,
Yep! got it beside the computer at home.
How's Canada at the moment? We've had some great snow on the ski fields here at home. And now it's almost ekka time, the westerlies should be starting soon.
DP
Yep! got it beside the computer at home.
How's Canada at the moment? We've had some great snow on the ski fields here at home. And now it's almost ekka time, the westerlies should be starting soon.
DP
