Atlanta ATC
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 611
From: surfing, watching for sharks
If while over here you say "N12345 is declaring an emergency" followed by the nature of the problem you will receive the full attention of ATC.
Here's to hoping you don't have to.
Here's to hoping you don't have to.
Last edited by West Coast; 2nd July 2004 at 04:44.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
From: California USA
Warning: Rant
Agreed. 22 years working it on this side of the pond... small towers, medium-sized towers and TRACONs, and the largest TRACONs, and I think I've heard one, perhaps two, maydays and no pans. On the other hand, I've worked an awful lot of emergencies, pilot-declared, company-declared, and controller-declared. My philosophy (which I've imparted to hordes of trainees over the years as well) has always been, if it smells like an emergency, treat it as one. The case in question here simply illustrates that there was a decision to be made once everybody was assuming that it WAS an emergency.
That A80 controller handled the aircraft as though it was an emergency. However, because of the weather, he needed a commitment from the pilot as to what sort of action he wanted to take. At that point, my job as a controller would be to provide you, the driver, with all of the info at my disposal, and then execute a plan which accomplished what you wanted to do. And I believe that's what happened here. The pilot knew everything the controller knew, but the controller did NOT know everything the pilot knew. The crew on the aircraft had info on the nature of the emergency which was simply not available to the controller, nor SHOULD it be. Something like, "Delta 321 has a medical emergency and we need to get on the ground just as quickly as possible" is plenty. The crew also knew what their own limitations were as far as the kind of wx they'd be willing to penetrate. Once the controller shares the info he has with the pilot, the controller has to wait for the pilot's decision to be made known to him, and that's the way it should be. However, in the absence of clear intent from the aircrew, a controller is going to want to avoid executing a plan which involves the penetration of severe wx and burning up the gas reserves. That's why he was looking for the "magic word." He wanted the pilot to tell him that an attempt at the ATL approach is exactly what he wanted to do, even in the face of a possible miss.
I suppose I'm rambling... I guess, for me, this wasn't a question about whether an emergency had been declared, but rather, one of the aircrew's intentions (as in, "Understand you've got an emergency. Say intentions."). In the absence of a commitment one way or the other from the aircrew, the controller went with the more cautious solution.
As for the use of "mayday" and "pan..." excellent words to use in the proper circumstances. They tell me in no uncertain terms that you need something. However, that's not the end of the story. Where I've worked I've had the luxury of being able to act as though an emergency HAD been declared, regardless of whether or not "magic words" were used. I understand that this ability is not universal, and I think that's kind of tragic.
In other words, I'm in agreement with West Coast... "there are no degrees of an emergency as far as declaring one." Either you've got an emergency or you don't. The thing that needs to be worked out is, what do you want to do now and how quickly do you need to do it? My brother controllers are, of course, correct when they speak about the nature of the emergency, rolling equipment, closing runways, etc. But again, that's all part of the nature of the emergency and the aircrew's intent. However, once we get to the part where I know you've got an emergency, you've got your special handling.
Just my two cents...
Dave
"N12345 is declaring an emergency"
That A80 controller handled the aircraft as though it was an emergency. However, because of the weather, he needed a commitment from the pilot as to what sort of action he wanted to take. At that point, my job as a controller would be to provide you, the driver, with all of the info at my disposal, and then execute a plan which accomplished what you wanted to do. And I believe that's what happened here. The pilot knew everything the controller knew, but the controller did NOT know everything the pilot knew. The crew on the aircraft had info on the nature of the emergency which was simply not available to the controller, nor SHOULD it be. Something like, "Delta 321 has a medical emergency and we need to get on the ground just as quickly as possible" is plenty. The crew also knew what their own limitations were as far as the kind of wx they'd be willing to penetrate. Once the controller shares the info he has with the pilot, the controller has to wait for the pilot's decision to be made known to him, and that's the way it should be. However, in the absence of clear intent from the aircrew, a controller is going to want to avoid executing a plan which involves the penetration of severe wx and burning up the gas reserves. That's why he was looking for the "magic word." He wanted the pilot to tell him that an attempt at the ATL approach is exactly what he wanted to do, even in the face of a possible miss.
I suppose I'm rambling... I guess, for me, this wasn't a question about whether an emergency had been declared, but rather, one of the aircrew's intentions (as in, "Understand you've got an emergency. Say intentions."). In the absence of a commitment one way or the other from the aircrew, the controller went with the more cautious solution.
As for the use of "mayday" and "pan..." excellent words to use in the proper circumstances. They tell me in no uncertain terms that you need something. However, that's not the end of the story. Where I've worked I've had the luxury of being able to act as though an emergency HAD been declared, regardless of whether or not "magic words" were used. I understand that this ability is not universal, and I think that's kind of tragic.
In other words, I'm in agreement with West Coast... "there are no degrees of an emergency as far as declaring one." Either you've got an emergency or you don't. The thing that needs to be worked out is, what do you want to do now and how quickly do you need to do it? My brother controllers are, of course, correct when they speak about the nature of the emergency, rolling equipment, closing runways, etc. But again, that's all part of the nature of the emergency and the aircrew's intent. However, once we get to the part where I know you've got an emergency, you've got your special handling.
Just my two cents...
Dave
