Cancelling limitation of radar service
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Cancelling limitation of radar service
Is there any approved wording for cancelling a limitation of radar service? I've often had a limited RAS or RIS on first contact with a unit, which is never formally "de-limited" even though I have moved away from the reason for the limitation (base of radar cover/limit of radar cover/area of poor radar performance/radar overhead etc).
If the service is no longer limited shouldn't we be told??
If the service is no longer limited shouldn't we be told??
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
Yes - if the controller is giving you more of a service then you SHOULD be told.
Maybe they were too busy to get in...... At least it is better to give you worst case scenario and then improve on it.
Maybe they were too busy to get in...... At least it is better to give you worst case scenario and then improve on it.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Not withstanding what AlanM said, and without delving through the good book, I don't think there is any actual phraseology, and to be honest, I've never been party to "delimiting" a radar service. The only way, in my experience, that it might occur is upgrading from RIS to RAS at the pilots request.
Just out of interest NS, how did you know that you were outside the "envelope" of a limited radar service?, the limitation is imposed by the atco, and only they would know when the service could technically be upgraded.
Not trying to pick a fight, just curious.
Just out of interest NS, how did you know that you were outside the "envelope" of a limited radar service?, the limitation is imposed by the atco, and only they would know when the service could technically be upgraded.
Not trying to pick a fight, just curious.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Cloud Nine
I will quite often limit service from below, if you are at the base of solid radar cover between Glasgow and Inverness, and Stornoway and Inverness, especially if the aircraft is flying below FL100. Advisory routes W3D, W6D and A1D are 50 miles plus from the radar heads (Tiree, Aberdeen and Lowther Hill (by Abingdon on the A74) ). So you have very little warning of fast jets pulling up out of the highlands. It is only fair to warn you of that.
We do not have composite radar, instead we have two 17 inch computer displays with one radar selected on each. Not easy when you really need three radars selected .....
Lowther for Glasgow, Islay, Campbeltown area
Tiree for West Coast traffic, to/from Bennie and St.Ornoway and transatlantics in/out of Scottish TMA
Aberdeen for Inverness ins/outs on W3D
and then you often have to reselect the radio transmitter site for each transmission (Lowther, Tiree and Stornoway) as the ac at Campbeltown can't hear you on the Stornoway Tx, and vice versa.
... and then you have to operate a 200 mile sector on a s### 17 inch screen
but I digress ...... our equipment is mince .... roll on New Scottish Centre
We do not have composite radar, instead we have two 17 inch computer displays with one radar selected on each. Not easy when you really need three radars selected .....
Lowther for Glasgow, Islay, Campbeltown area
Tiree for West Coast traffic, to/from Bennie and St.Ornoway and transatlantics in/out of Scottish TMA
Aberdeen for Inverness ins/outs on W3D
and then you often have to reselect the radio transmitter site for each transmission (Lowther, Tiree and Stornoway) as the ac at Campbeltown can't hear you on the Stornoway Tx, and vice versa.
... and then you have to operate a 200 mile sector on a s### 17 inch screen
but I digress ...... our equipment is mince .... roll on New Scottish Centre
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: The Road to Nowhere
Phraseology?
None standard perhaps, but some I have heard (mil controllers)
After limiting for SSR only: "Gadget sweet, full service resumes."
Edge of radar cover: "Now in solid cover, Radar Information Service."
Statements such as "height block surface to ten thousand, limited below five thousand FIS below 3 thousand" and "Service limited for next ten miles due my overhead" mean the limitations are self-lifting.
In answer to the original question, though, yes I believe you should be made aware when the limitation is lifted.
STH
None standard perhaps, but some I have heard (mil controllers)
After limiting for SSR only: "Gadget sweet, full service resumes."
Edge of radar cover: "Now in solid cover, Radar Information Service."
Statements such as "height block surface to ten thousand, limited below five thousand FIS below 3 thousand" and "Service limited for next ten miles due my overhead" mean the limitations are self-lifting.
In answer to the original question, though, yes I believe you should be made aware when the limitation is lifted.
STH
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Sometimes north, sometimes south
niknak:
Particular example that prompted this was the other day - asked for a RAS on first contact with Warton, flying straight towards them, and was given a limited RAS at the edge of radar cover or some such phraseology (I was not far south of DCS at FL75). Never did get it "unlimited". Also had a case not long ago with Leeming where the limitation was due an "area of poor radar performance". But then maybe that covers everywhere within 40nm of Leeming!
Just out of interest NS, how did you know that you were outside the "envelope" of a limited radar service?
