Visual Approach
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Visual Approach
Guy's,
Have been pondering over the issue of visual approaches and seperation for a while - perhaps someone can help me out?!
When cleared for a visual approach to an airfield, how do you apply the seperation standards that IFR traffic is inherently privalidge too? In particular, i'm interested in situations in which an a/c is cleared for a visual approach with other VFR/IFR traffic within the aerodrome immediate vicinity. In a non-radar environment, are you seperating traffic purely by visual means?
Please forgive my ignorance, i'm just interested to know how it's done!
Regards,
Cuban_8
Have been pondering over the issue of visual approaches and seperation for a while - perhaps someone can help me out?!
When cleared for a visual approach to an airfield, how do you apply the seperation standards that IFR traffic is inherently privalidge too? In particular, i'm interested in situations in which an a/c is cleared for a visual approach with other VFR/IFR traffic within the aerodrome immediate vicinity. In a non-radar environment, are you seperating traffic purely by visual means?
Please forgive my ignorance, i'm just interested to know how it's done!
Regards,
Cuban_8
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Required separation must still be maintained. You're only doing a visual approach, you haven't cancelled IFR.
So - separation is applied. In non-radar environment that's achieved either visually (as you summised) or by laid down (unit specific) geographic separation.
MATS pt.1 lays down reduced separation in the vicinity of the aerodrome. (section 1, part 3)
Hope this explains
So - separation is applied. In non-radar environment that's achieved either visually (as you summised) or by laid down (unit specific) geographic separation.
MATS pt.1 lays down reduced separation in the vicinity of the aerodrome. (section 1, part 3)
3 Reduced Separation
3.1 In addition to the following paragraphs, standard separation may be reduced when
authorised by the CAA and published in MATS Part 2.
3.2 In the Vicinity of Aerodromes
In the vicinity of aerodromes, the standard separation minima may be reduced if:
a) adequate separation can be provided by the aerodrome controller when each
aircraft is continuously visible to this controller; or
b) each aircraft is continuously visible to the pilots of other aircraft concerned, and the
pilots report that they can maintain their own separation; or
c) when one aircraft is following another the pilot of the succeeding aircraft reports
that he has the other in sight and can maintain separation.
3.1 In addition to the following paragraphs, standard separation may be reduced when
authorised by the CAA and published in MATS Part 2.
3.2 In the Vicinity of Aerodromes
In the vicinity of aerodromes, the standard separation minima may be reduced if:
a) adequate separation can be provided by the aerodrome controller when each
aircraft is continuously visible to this controller; or
b) each aircraft is continuously visible to the pilots of other aircraft concerned, and the
pilots report that they can maintain their own separation; or
c) when one aircraft is following another the pilot of the succeeding aircraft reports
that he has the other in sight and can maintain separation.
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If you come to the US, the same applies (except) unless you are number two for the visual approach and you have the first aircraft in sight. We may then clear you to follow the first aircraft and clear you for the visual approach. You don't even need to have the airport in sight, just the first aircraft. You are then required to maintain your own separation from the first aircraft.
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
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In the UK the pilot does not need to have the runway (or field) in sight.
MATS Part 1 says
MATS Part 1 says
12 Visual Approach
12.1 To expedite traffic at any time, IFR flights may be authorised to execute visual approaches if the pilot reports that he can maintain visual reference to the surface and
a) the reported cloud ceiling is not below the initial approach level; or
b) the pilot reports at any time after commencing the approach procedure that the visibility will permit a visual approach and landing, and a reasonable assurance exists that this can be accomplished.
12.1 To expedite traffic at any time, IFR flights may be authorised to execute visual approaches if the pilot reports that he can maintain visual reference to the surface and
a) the reported cloud ceiling is not below the initial approach level; or
b) the pilot reports at any time after commencing the approach procedure that the visibility will permit a visual approach and landing, and a reasonable assurance exists that this can be accomplished.
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If you come to the US, the same applies (except) unless you are number two for the visual approach and you have the first aircraft in sight. We may then clear you to follow the first aircraft and clear you for the visual approach. You don't even need to have the airport in sight, just the first aircraft. You are then required to maintain your own separation from the first aircraft
,Been into LAX in a -400 onto 25R(?) [south of terminals] with light twin turboprop for 25L formating about 1/4 mile astern and 200 yards off our left wing, cleared visual behind us - not somewhere I would have been if I had been him.
Topbunk
I used to be that turbo prop, it was never a big deal. Approach would effect the join up so to speak with us a good deal higher allowing us to keep a comfortable distance vertically from your wake.
As far as visual approaches in general into busy airports based on sighting the preceeding aircraft only, its a problem waiting to happen.
Coming down the north downwind at LAX and approach calls a sequence that requires you to look across the final for four runways and pick out the one to follow among others in close proximity. Many pilots will never call the preceeding aircraft in sight even if it is in case you pick the wrong one.
I used to be that turbo prop, it was never a big deal. Approach would effect the join up so to speak with us a good deal higher allowing us to keep a comfortable distance vertically from your wake.
As far as visual approaches in general into busy airports based on sighting the preceeding aircraft only, its a problem waiting to happen.
Coming down the north downwind at LAX and approach calls a sequence that requires you to look across the final for four runways and pick out the one to follow among others in close proximity. Many pilots will never call the preceeding aircraft in sight even if it is in case you pick the wrong one.
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Cuban_8 et all,
Just to expand a bit on Scott's post;
In the U.S., depending on Class Airspace, we may only need provide target resolution (green between) between IFR/VFR aircraft. Of course, we still have to create a sequence on final that works, but the Cherokee on downwind may be quite close.
Also, where parallel runways are separated by 4300' or more, we need only include a statement on ATIS that simultaneous visual approaches are in use, and we can run side by side visuals without necessarily getting visual separation between aircraft. So you may have a "wingman" about 4/5ths of a mile to one side. Relevant para from 7110.65 follows:
Just to expand a bit on Scott's post;
In the U.S., depending on Class Airspace, we may only need provide target resolution (green between) between IFR/VFR aircraft. Of course, we still have to create a sequence on final that works, but the Cherokee on downwind may be quite close.
Also, where parallel runways are separated by 4300' or more, we need only include a statement on ATIS that simultaneous visual approaches are in use, and we can run side by side visuals without necessarily getting visual separation between aircraft. So you may have a "wingman" about 4/5ths of a mile to one side. Relevant para from 7110.65 follows:
7-4-4. APPROACHES TO MULTIPLE RUNWAYS
a. All aircraft must be informed that approaches are being conducted to parallel/intersecting/converging runways. This may be accomplished through use of the ATIS.
b. When conducting visual approaches to multiple runways ensure the following:
1. Do not permit the respective aircrafts' primary radar returns to merge unless visual separation is being applied.
2. When the aircraft flight paths intersect, ensure standard separation is maintained until visual separation is provided.
c. In addition to the requirements in para 7-2-1, Visual Separation, para 7-4-1, Visual Approach, para 7-4-2, Vectors for Visual Approach, and para 7-4-3, Clearance for Visual Approach, the following conditions apply to visual approaches being conducted simultaneously to parallel, intersecting, and converging runways, as appropriate:
1. Parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet. Unless standard separation is provided by ATC, an aircraft must report sighting a preceding aircraft making an approach (instrument or visual) to the adjacent parallel runway. When an aircraft reports another aircraft in sight on the adjacent final approach course and visual separation is applied, controllers must advise the succeeding aircraft to maintain visual separation. However, do not permit a heavy/B757 aircraft to overtake another aircraft. Do not permit a large aircraft to overtake a small aircraft.
2. Parallel runways separated by at least 2,500 feet, but less than
4,300 feet.
(a) Standard separation is provided until the aircraft are established on a heading which will intercept the extended centerline of the runway at an angle not greater than 30 degrees, and each aircraft has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
NOTE-
The intent of the 30 degree intercept angle is to reduce the potential for overshoots of the final, and preclude side-by-side operations with one or both aircraft in a "belly-up" configuration during the turn. Aircraft performance, speed, and the number of degrees of the turn to the final are factors to be considered by the controller when vectoring aircraft to parallel runways.
(b) Visual approaches may be conducted to one runway while visual or instrument approaches are conducted simultaneously to the other runway, provided the conditions of subpara (a) are met.
(c) Provided aircraft flight paths do not intersect, and when the provisions of subparas (a) and (b) are met, it is not necessary to apply any other type of separation with aircraft on the adjacent final approach course.
3. Parallel runways separated by 4,300 feet or more.
(a) When aircraft flight paths do not intersect, visual approaches may be conducted simultaneously, provided standard separation is maintained until one of the aircraft has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
(b) Visual approaches may be conducted to one runway while visual or instrument approaches are conducted simultaneously to the other runway, provided the conditions of subpara (a) are met.
(c) Provided the aircraft flight paths do not intersect, when the provisions of subparas (a) and (b) are met, it is not necessary to apply any other type of separation with aircraft on the adjacent final approach course.
4. Intersecting and converging runways. Visual approaches may be conducted simultaneously with visual or instrument approaches to another runway, provided:
(a) Standard separation is maintained until the aircraft conducting the visual approach has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
(b) When aircraft flight paths intersect, radar separation must be maintained until visual separation is provided.
NOTE-
Although simultaneous approaches may be conducted to intersecting runways, staggered approaches may be necessary to meet the airport separation requirements specified in para 3-10-4, Intersecting Runway Separation.
REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.79, Charted Visual Flight Procedures.
FAAO 7110.65,Charted Visual Flight Procedures (CVFP). USA/USN Not Applicable, Para 7-4-5.
FAAO 7110.65, Separation, Para 7-7-3.
a. All aircraft must be informed that approaches are being conducted to parallel/intersecting/converging runways. This may be accomplished through use of the ATIS.
b. When conducting visual approaches to multiple runways ensure the following:
1. Do not permit the respective aircrafts' primary radar returns to merge unless visual separation is being applied.
2. When the aircraft flight paths intersect, ensure standard separation is maintained until visual separation is provided.
c. In addition to the requirements in para 7-2-1, Visual Separation, para 7-4-1, Visual Approach, para 7-4-2, Vectors for Visual Approach, and para 7-4-3, Clearance for Visual Approach, the following conditions apply to visual approaches being conducted simultaneously to parallel, intersecting, and converging runways, as appropriate:
1. Parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet. Unless standard separation is provided by ATC, an aircraft must report sighting a preceding aircraft making an approach (instrument or visual) to the adjacent parallel runway. When an aircraft reports another aircraft in sight on the adjacent final approach course and visual separation is applied, controllers must advise the succeeding aircraft to maintain visual separation. However, do not permit a heavy/B757 aircraft to overtake another aircraft. Do not permit a large aircraft to overtake a small aircraft.
2. Parallel runways separated by at least 2,500 feet, but less than
4,300 feet.
(a) Standard separation is provided until the aircraft are established on a heading which will intercept the extended centerline of the runway at an angle not greater than 30 degrees, and each aircraft has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
NOTE-
The intent of the 30 degree intercept angle is to reduce the potential for overshoots of the final, and preclude side-by-side operations with one or both aircraft in a "belly-up" configuration during the turn. Aircraft performance, speed, and the number of degrees of the turn to the final are factors to be considered by the controller when vectoring aircraft to parallel runways.
(b) Visual approaches may be conducted to one runway while visual or instrument approaches are conducted simultaneously to the other runway, provided the conditions of subpara (a) are met.
(c) Provided aircraft flight paths do not intersect, and when the provisions of subparas (a) and (b) are met, it is not necessary to apply any other type of separation with aircraft on the adjacent final approach course.
3. Parallel runways separated by 4,300 feet or more.
(a) When aircraft flight paths do not intersect, visual approaches may be conducted simultaneously, provided standard separation is maintained until one of the aircraft has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
(b) Visual approaches may be conducted to one runway while visual or instrument approaches are conducted simultaneously to the other runway, provided the conditions of subpara (a) are met.
(c) Provided the aircraft flight paths do not intersect, when the provisions of subparas (a) and (b) are met, it is not necessary to apply any other type of separation with aircraft on the adjacent final approach course.
4. Intersecting and converging runways. Visual approaches may be conducted simultaneously with visual or instrument approaches to another runway, provided:
(a) Standard separation is maintained until the aircraft conducting the visual approach has been issued and the pilot has acknowledged receipt of the visual approach clearance.
(b) When aircraft flight paths intersect, radar separation must be maintained until visual separation is provided.
NOTE-
Although simultaneous approaches may be conducted to intersecting runways, staggered approaches may be necessary to meet the airport separation requirements specified in para 3-10-4, Intersecting Runway Separation.
REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.79, Charted Visual Flight Procedures.
FAAO 7110.65,Charted Visual Flight Procedures (CVFP). USA/USN Not Applicable, Para 7-4-5.
FAAO 7110.65, Separation, Para 7-7-3.
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If an aircraft is making a visual approach then agreed it is still IFR.
However, if an aircraft is making a visual approach then should the clear and graded area be defined as for VFR aircraft, or should it be mantained as for Instrument approaches??
Turn it Off
However, if an aircraft is making a visual approach then should the clear and graded area be defined as for VFR aircraft, or should it be mantained as for Instrument approaches??
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An airfield which only has cleared and graded areas and obstacle limitation surfaces for visual flights can accept IFR flights however, they must be visual since there can not be procedures for approach in IMC unless the appropriate obstacle limitation surfaces are in place.
Operators using such places will have appropriate defined ceiling and visibility minima in the ops manual.
Put in a slightly different context which may explain things better - there is no requirement to use CAT 3 hold points and LVPs when the weather is at Cat 1 minima.
Cap 168 and Annex 14 are tyhe best places to look for the exact info.
Regards,
DFC
Operators using such places will have appropriate defined ceiling and visibility minima in the ops manual.
Put in a slightly different context which may explain things better - there is no requirement to use CAT 3 hold points and LVPs when the weather is at Cat 1 minima.
Cap 168 and Annex 14 are tyhe best places to look for the exact info.
Regards,
DFC
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From my dim memory of aerodrome licensing issues at CATC, I think you are getting confused.
The Cleared and Graded area is an area surrounding the runway strip which is relatively free of obstacles which could majorly damage an aircraft (i.e. obstacles must be frangible), and the surface is relatively smooth. A cleared and graded area is REQUIRED for an instrument runway but not for a visual runway.
The Localiser Sensitive Area is a defined area within which vehicles and aircraft must not be when the ILS is being used for precision approaches below a certain distance or height in certain weather conditions. This is because their presence can affect the electronic signals and give spurious instrument indications. This is a bad idea if you are using those indications to get 300 tonnes of aircraft travelling at 130 kts down to 50ft or less without seeing the runway!
So, an IFR Visual approach will be to an instrument runway which will have a cleared and graded area. There will be no need to protect the Localiser Sensitive Area as the ILS is not being used for guidance. The mark one eyeball is doing that.
The Cleared and Graded area is an area surrounding the runway strip which is relatively free of obstacles which could majorly damage an aircraft (i.e. obstacles must be frangible), and the surface is relatively smooth. A cleared and graded area is REQUIRED for an instrument runway but not for a visual runway.
The Localiser Sensitive Area is a defined area within which vehicles and aircraft must not be when the ILS is being used for precision approaches below a certain distance or height in certain weather conditions. This is because their presence can affect the electronic signals and give spurious instrument indications. This is a bad idea if you are using those indications to get 300 tonnes of aircraft travelling at 130 kts down to 50ft or less without seeing the runway!
So, an IFR Visual approach will be to an instrument runway which will have a cleared and graded area. There will be no need to protect the Localiser Sensitive Area as the ILS is not being used for guidance. The mark one eyeball is doing that.
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eyeinthesky,
An IFR flight can land at and depart from a farm strip. It must be visual from MSA since ther are no instrument procedures. There is no cleared and graded area. If the farmer installs and ILS he must have a cleared and graded area......even if the pilots flying the ILS are visual.
I was using the CAT 3/CAT 1 idea to explain the principle using totally different and unrelated circumstances.
Regards,
DFC
An IFR flight can land at and depart from a farm strip. It must be visual from MSA since ther are no instrument procedures. There is no cleared and graded area. If the farmer installs and ILS he must have a cleared and graded area......even if the pilots flying the ILS are visual.
I was using the CAT 3/CAT 1 idea to explain the principle using totally different and unrelated circumstances.
Regards,
DFC
