The results are in - -
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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The results are in - -
- - and they're not good!
Sorry to say that I recieved the very small thin envelope this morning. :-( After waiting almost 3 weeks for the results I had started to get a bit excited - but I guess it was not to be.
I have written to HR to ask the reasons behind the rejection - I am 99% sure it was the computer tests - if that is the case I've already decided I won't apply again - - those computer tests are just something that should only be required of astronauts!
____________________________________________________
I don't want the following comments to be seen as being "bitter" - because I formed these opinions over the past year - but I think that it may be time for NATS to re-think their recruitment process. There has to be some major flaws in a system that only accepts about 1% of all applicants and then still has a 50%+ drop out rate at the college. At this rate they will never manage to meet the needs of the industry.
I for one have not enjoyed the process and some of the service recieved from the recruitment dept. has been less than helpful. The wait between initial application - (4 months) initial tests - results (2 1/2 week wait) - (1 year later) 2nd stage - results (3 week wait). How many jobs have you been for where you waited 3 weeks for the results??? It's not the impression that a company wants to put out to prospective employees.
I think you also have to question the validity of the testing process. Although I do believe that the initial aptitude tests are important to determine a candidate's suitability - but the second stage IMHO is becoming a bit of a joke. I'm not going to make a comment about the computer tests - everyone who has seen them know's that they were written in about 1960 - can they not come up with a beter system than this in the 2000's??
The technical interview is fine - but there MUST be a second person in the room to validate what the ATCO's opinons of you are - - as the questions change for each candidate there needs to be an HR person there to make sure that each candidate is given suitable questions. The current method of 1-on-1 leaves a lot of room for personal preference (which is not what this should be about)
Personel interview - - strange interview I'm sure you would agree. What is gained from this structure? Uniformity? A fair interview for all? My question is this - are the HR persons opinions of you formed already by your personal/motivation tests? How much can your responses to these adjust a preformed opinion??
I would love anyone who has been through the process and either got through or been rejected give their opinions.
____________________________________________________
I also want to thank all those people on this forum who have offered advice, support and a compasionate ear! Thanks for the help - and good luck to those still awaiting results - hope yours are more positive!
Best,
Mark
Sorry to say that I recieved the very small thin envelope this morning. :-( After waiting almost 3 weeks for the results I had started to get a bit excited - but I guess it was not to be.
I have written to HR to ask the reasons behind the rejection - I am 99% sure it was the computer tests - if that is the case I've already decided I won't apply again - - those computer tests are just something that should only be required of astronauts!
____________________________________________________
I don't want the following comments to be seen as being "bitter" - because I formed these opinions over the past year - but I think that it may be time for NATS to re-think their recruitment process. There has to be some major flaws in a system that only accepts about 1% of all applicants and then still has a 50%+ drop out rate at the college. At this rate they will never manage to meet the needs of the industry.
I for one have not enjoyed the process and some of the service recieved from the recruitment dept. has been less than helpful. The wait between initial application - (4 months) initial tests - results (2 1/2 week wait) - (1 year later) 2nd stage - results (3 week wait). How many jobs have you been for where you waited 3 weeks for the results??? It's not the impression that a company wants to put out to prospective employees.
I think you also have to question the validity of the testing process. Although I do believe that the initial aptitude tests are important to determine a candidate's suitability - but the second stage IMHO is becoming a bit of a joke. I'm not going to make a comment about the computer tests - everyone who has seen them know's that they were written in about 1960 - can they not come up with a beter system than this in the 2000's??
The technical interview is fine - but there MUST be a second person in the room to validate what the ATCO's opinons of you are - - as the questions change for each candidate there needs to be an HR person there to make sure that each candidate is given suitable questions. The current method of 1-on-1 leaves a lot of room for personal preference (which is not what this should be about)
Personel interview - - strange interview I'm sure you would agree. What is gained from this structure? Uniformity? A fair interview for all? My question is this - are the HR persons opinions of you formed already by your personal/motivation tests? How much can your responses to these adjust a preformed opinion??
I would love anyone who has been through the process and either got through or been rejected give their opinions.
____________________________________________________
I also want to thank all those people on this forum who have offered advice, support and a compasionate ear! Thanks for the help - and good luck to those still awaiting results - hope yours are more positive!
Best,
Mark
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Hi Mark,
Sorry you weren't successful in your application.
You are right about personnel, in all the dealings I've had with them right from initial application through to starting at the college and all subsequent dealings with them post validation, I have to say they haven't quite been on the ball!!
However, they have admitted that there are problems and they are addressing them.
I know when I did my interview there were 2 ATCO's there, not sure of the validity of just having one, but then again quite often when you go for any job you are interviewed by just one person who makes the final decision.
The computer tests are a bit of a farce, but they highlight you ability to prioritise and multitask, your main priority is to stop things banging together, after all, that is our job, all the other tasks are secondary to that prinmary role.
The personnel interview is just a way of confirming what you put down in the questionnaire when you first did the aptitude tests, so if you were honest then it will reflect the initial results.
I'm sorry that you have decided not to try again, after all as you say there is quite a high failure rate so we do need more people to reapply after initial failure, you may have come very close to passing, so get the feedback from HR, figure out your options and take it from there.
Best Wishes for whatever you decide
CIPWM
Sorry you weren't successful in your application.
You are right about personnel, in all the dealings I've had with them right from initial application through to starting at the college and all subsequent dealings with them post validation, I have to say they haven't quite been on the ball!!
However, they have admitted that there are problems and they are addressing them.
I know when I did my interview there were 2 ATCO's there, not sure of the validity of just having one, but then again quite often when you go for any job you are interviewed by just one person who makes the final decision.
The computer tests are a bit of a farce, but they highlight you ability to prioritise and multitask, your main priority is to stop things banging together, after all, that is our job, all the other tasks are secondary to that prinmary role.
The personnel interview is just a way of confirming what you put down in the questionnaire when you first did the aptitude tests, so if you were honest then it will reflect the initial results.
I'm sorry that you have decided not to try again, after all as you say there is quite a high failure rate so we do need more people to reapply after initial failure, you may have come very close to passing, so get the feedback from HR, figure out your options and take it from there.
Best Wishes for whatever you decide
CIPWM
Join Date: Feb 2003
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mbwlewis - gutted mate, but don't give up - unless you don't have any other attempts left.... see what hr say and go from there. The tests/interviews etc. all get easier as you will know what to roughly expect when you go through the door and can prepare for it. I assume that this was the 1st go - next time will be easier, promise.
Apply again and you'll forget about it for a year or so until it's time to go down that route once more/hr sort themselves out - slate me for saying that, but that's the process in place and it does take about 20 months from start to finish (and then another 18 before you'd start your course...)
hear hear!!! Can't agree more. Don't slate candidates for having this view - do something positive about it rather than going on the defensive!
hear hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What sort of a joke is an interview with one person? Professional? Far from it. A panel will consult, discuss, reason their opinions and come to an overall view. One person can dismiss you because of the colour of your tie etc. (dammn, knew I should've worn that guards tie!)
Bit hard to take the decision given to you, especially if it's not ATC based perception that have led to rejection 
(find out why!)
I also agree that a lot of the material, test methods and the whole process is a bit antiquated. Maybe a job for the project/change managers who organised the move to Swanwick to get involved in...
WF - older, wiser, non-trusting and cynical. That's what the hr process has taught me in life, and I'm no young 'un.
Apply again and you'll forget about it for a year or so until it's time to go down that route once more/hr sort themselves out - slate me for saying that, but that's the process in place and it does take about 20 months from start to finish (and then another 18 before you'd start your course...)
I for one have not enjoyed the process and some of the service recieved from the recruitment dept. has been less than helpful. The wait between initial application - (4 months) initial tests - results (2 1/2 week wait) - (1 year later) 2nd stage - results (3 week wait). How many jobs have you been for where you waited 3 weeks for the results??? It's not the impression that a company wants to put out to prospective employees.
The technical interview is fine - but there MUST be a second person in the room to validate what the ATCO's opinons of you are - - as the questions change for each candidate there needs to be an HR person there to make sure that each candidate is given suitable questions. The current method of 1-on-1 leaves a lot of room for personal preference (which is not what this should be about)
What sort of a joke is an interview with one person? Professional? Far from it. A panel will consult, discuss, reason their opinions and come to an overall view. One person can dismiss you because of the colour of your tie etc. (dammn, knew I should've worn that guards tie!)
Bit hard to take the decision given to you, especially if it's not ATC based perception that have led to rejection (find out why!)I also agree that a lot of the material, test methods and the whole process is a bit antiquated. Maybe a job for the project/change managers who organised the move to Swanwick to get involved in...
WF - older, wiser, non-trusting and cynical. That's what the hr process has taught me in life, and I'm no young 'un.
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Hi.
Unlucky with your interview. I was fortunate enough to have passed mine last month.
I know what you mean about those computer tests, I had them before the interviews, but I think I figured them out whilst in there. Basically I did'nt even bother looking at the maths questions, I probably would have tried to answer them if they were easy questions, but I very much doubt anyone could have answered the maths in such a short space of time, so I realized they were just there to put you off. After I figured that out, preventing the numbers colliding was so much easier.
As for re-applying, I asked myself that question whilst I was waiting for my results, It has been hard since applying to NATS, I to applied in 2002. I probably would have re-applied though, because I don't feel I could have been doing another job wondering what if.
How did you feel you did as soon as you left the interviews? I went back to my hotel and ran the day through my mind. At that particular time I could not think of any reasons why they would fail me, I couldn't recall answering a question wrong and I felt both interviews went really well. It was only the dreaded wait when I began to doubt, I began to wonder if I could have approached some questions differently.
If I was in your position now, I would look back at the interview, is there aspects of the day you would do differently, how much more can you improve. Contact HR and ask them where you went wrong, and what they are ultimately looking for in a candidate.
Another great help for me was going on an interview course. I am not sure which company do these, I had mine through the Navy. It developed my confidence in an interview environment, it also helped me have good responces to the more difficult of questions. Throughout all my research on the internet on tips for the interview day, it says there is not much you can learn to prepare for the personel interview. I don't believe that, I sat in front of a mirror and interviewed myself, asking all the difficult personel type questions. It helped me remember experiances I have had throughout my life, then they were fresh in the memory.
OK hope that helps a little.
Unlucky with your interview. I was fortunate enough to have passed mine last month.
I know what you mean about those computer tests, I had them before the interviews, but I think I figured them out whilst in there. Basically I did'nt even bother looking at the maths questions, I probably would have tried to answer them if they were easy questions, but I very much doubt anyone could have answered the maths in such a short space of time, so I realized they were just there to put you off. After I figured that out, preventing the numbers colliding was so much easier.
As for re-applying, I asked myself that question whilst I was waiting for my results, It has been hard since applying to NATS, I to applied in 2002. I probably would have re-applied though, because I don't feel I could have been doing another job wondering what if.
How did you feel you did as soon as you left the interviews? I went back to my hotel and ran the day through my mind. At that particular time I could not think of any reasons why they would fail me, I couldn't recall answering a question wrong and I felt both interviews went really well. It was only the dreaded wait when I began to doubt, I began to wonder if I could have approached some questions differently.
If I was in your position now, I would look back at the interview, is there aspects of the day you would do differently, how much more can you improve. Contact HR and ask them where you went wrong, and what they are ultimately looking for in a candidate.
Another great help for me was going on an interview course. I am not sure which company do these, I had mine through the Navy. It developed my confidence in an interview environment, it also helped me have good responces to the more difficult of questions. Throughout all my research on the internet on tips for the interview day, it says there is not much you can learn to prepare for the personel interview. I don't believe that, I sat in front of a mirror and interviewed myself, asking all the difficult personel type questions. It helped me remember experiances I have had throughout my life, then they were fresh in the memory.
OK hope that helps a little.
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Failed Interview
Hi,
i just had my interviews 2 days ago and was emailed the following morning telling me that i had not been succesful. I was a bit cheesed off as i had studied very hard for the technical interview however the ATCO did'nt ask me anything on VOR, DME, NDB, INS, ILS, North Atlantic Tracks, Separation standards, QFE/QNH, wake turbulence ! In fact the most technical question he asked me was what the callsign KITTYHAWK was for, which i replied was for Royal flights ?
The majority of the interview was a discussion as to why i wanted to become an ATCO and discussing different scenarios.
In addition i cannot find out which areas i had failed in as the email stated that it is not NATS policy to give feedback !
Has anyone else been in this situation ? Is there any point in me reapplying if i cant find out where i went wrong ?
Any advice or info would be grateful..
i just had my interviews 2 days ago and was emailed the following morning telling me that i had not been succesful. I was a bit cheesed off as i had studied very hard for the technical interview however the ATCO did'nt ask me anything on VOR, DME, NDB, INS, ILS, North Atlantic Tracks, Separation standards, QFE/QNH, wake turbulence ! In fact the most technical question he asked me was what the callsign KITTYHAWK was for, which i replied was for Royal flights ?
The majority of the interview was a discussion as to why i wanted to become an ATCO and discussing different scenarios.
In addition i cannot find out which areas i had failed in as the email stated that it is not NATS policy to give feedback !
Has anyone else been in this situation ? Is there any point in me reapplying if i cant find out where i went wrong ?
Any advice or info would be grateful..
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It is frustrating I know, but well worth it in the end. With regards to the 50%+ fail rate, that is not true. Infact the course ahead of ours has a 100% pass rate so far and we aim to do the same. Fortunately, it only took me 9 months from initial application to starting college but that is rare, just right place right time I guess.
If anyone would like to ask me any questions regarding NATS and CATC then feel free!
If anyone would like to ask me any questions regarding NATS and CATC then feel free!
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MPS12, i heard that at the college you have to study the characteristics of flight of the wasp, is this correct?
Oh, and what airspace they can fly in, it's class w isnt it!
Do you know your port from your starburst??
Oh, and what airspace they can fly in, it's class w isnt it!
Do you know your port from your starburst??
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nearly three years from application to start of course.
And that was without any failures or retries (how's that for slow!!)
As MPS says don't believe half the stuff you read or hear about the course as most of it is not true and is said as a bitter parting shot by those who have failed for legitimate reasons!
I agree the computer tests are hard - but by the nature of the job you'd rather know that the guy or gal next to you was up to it. Its all about priorities and being able to mentally orientate things in your head (ie radar tracks and directions)
As for the paper tests - i got far harder when i went to a well known bank for an IT job (go figure).
Ah well thats life i suppose - you get thrown a curve ball and deal with it!
I don't know why you don't get feedback - but would it really help. I don't mean that in a nasty way - but how could you rehearse those computer tests.
You have to look deep into yourself and rationalise if the job is what you really want to do - if it is then you'll reapply if not you won't.
there is a chap on the present course who has taken three attempts and nearly 5 yes FIVE years to get into CATC.
He wanted it - he eventually got it!
Hope that leaves you on an up.
If you want any more- just ask
And that was without any failures or retries (how's that for slow!!)
As MPS says don't believe half the stuff you read or hear about the course as most of it is not true and is said as a bitter parting shot by those who have failed for legitimate reasons!
I agree the computer tests are hard - but by the nature of the job you'd rather know that the guy or gal next to you was up to it. Its all about priorities and being able to mentally orientate things in your head (ie radar tracks and directions)
As for the paper tests - i got far harder when i went to a well known bank for an IT job (go figure).
Ah well thats life i suppose - you get thrown a curve ball and deal with it!
I don't know why you don't get feedback - but would it really help. I don't mean that in a nasty way - but how could you rehearse those computer tests.
You have to look deep into yourself and rationalise if the job is what you really want to do - if it is then you'll reapply if not you won't.
there is a chap on the present course who has taken three attempts and nearly 5 yes FIVE years to get into CATC.
He wanted it - he eventually got it!
Hope that leaves you on an up.
If you want any more- just ask
