Skyuide is hiring expats
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
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From: Around the corner
Skyguide is hiring expats
Last edited by Spuds McKenzie; 11th January 2004 at 19:02.
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Around the corner
Can't tell you about the interview.
As for the working conditions:
35h/week
Competitive salary
6 weeks leave up to the age of 40, then 7 weeks
Very modern equipment, frequently being upgraded/modernised
No overtime, no recalls
As for the working conditions:
35h/week
Competitive salary
6 weeks leave up to the age of 40, then 7 weeks
Very modern equipment, frequently being upgraded/modernised
No overtime, no recalls
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Around the corner
Radar35,
Check your PM.
Yankee_Doodle_Floppy_Disk,
Maybe, if you're a german speaking Kiwi.
JustaFew,
Was heisst zu alt?
Hat schon Fälle gegeben, wo sie Lotsen, die älter als 35 sind, genommen haben. Kommt auch drauf an woher Du kommst ("busy environment" hilft sicher).
Check your PM.
Yankee_Doodle_Floppy_Disk,
Maybe, if you're a german speaking Kiwi.
JustaFew,
Was heisst zu alt?
Hat schon Fälle gegeben, wo sie Lotsen, die älter als 35 sind, genommen haben. Kommt auch drauf an woher Du kommst ("busy environment" hilft sicher).
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Around the corner
Radar35,
Well, I don't think the interviews would last 8 hours straight.
I would imagine amongst other things they would like to know about your professional background and why you wanna move.
If you're seriously interested and if you fulfill the basic requirements then I would recommend to give it a go.
Lots of expats there already.
BTW, check your PM's.
Well, I don't think the interviews would last 8 hours straight.
I would imagine amongst other things they would like to know about your professional background and why you wanna move.
If you're seriously interested and if you fulfill the basic requirements then I would recommend to give it a go.
Lots of expats there already.
BTW, check your PM's.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Geneva
Let me answer some of your questions and quash the rumours.
1. There is a kiwi working there and she is non-op. She did not validate because of various reasons one being her lack of french skills.
2. In Geneva (that is where i worked) you need a fluent knowledge of french and in Zurich you need a fluent knowledge of German. Any less and you are kidding yourselves.. there is alot of traffic there and things move very quickly.. if you can't keep up with the french going on around you you'll never be able to manage the traffic.
3. As for many expats, yes there are about 20 or so but it's not the typical "expat" life as one might expect. It's very expensive living there. The salary is based on your experience.. someone with 8 years validated experience would expect approx 160.000 CHF per annum.
4. There is no day long interview, you will meet with the HR guy, then meet with the training manager. You will then have a sim test that takes about 1 hour where there will be a good load of traffic. If you pass this test you will briefly meet with the facility manager and if you meet all other qualifications standards they will give you an offer on the spot. This is what they did for me.
If anyone has questions feel free to message me, I worked there from March 2001 til March 2003. It was a good working experience it just was not for me. I am Canadian and will be heading back to Canada eventually.
1. There is a kiwi working there and she is non-op. She did not validate because of various reasons one being her lack of french skills.
2. In Geneva (that is where i worked) you need a fluent knowledge of french and in Zurich you need a fluent knowledge of German. Any less and you are kidding yourselves.. there is alot of traffic there and things move very quickly.. if you can't keep up with the french going on around you you'll never be able to manage the traffic.
3. As for many expats, yes there are about 20 or so but it's not the typical "expat" life as one might expect. It's very expensive living there. The salary is based on your experience.. someone with 8 years validated experience would expect approx 160.000 CHF per annum.
4. There is no day long interview, you will meet with the HR guy, then meet with the training manager. You will then have a sim test that takes about 1 hour where there will be a good load of traffic. If you pass this test you will briefly meet with the facility manager and if you meet all other qualifications standards they will give you an offer on the spot. This is what they did for me.
If anyone has questions feel free to message me, I worked there from March 2001 til March 2003. It was a good working experience it just was not for me. I am Canadian and will be heading back to Canada eventually.
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
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From: Around the corner
EuroATC,
I appreciate your comments, but one should probably differentiate a little:
As for the "very expensive" bit, one has to know that health insurance premiums and taxes are considerably higher in Geneva than in Zurich.
The positions advertised are for Zurich TWR/APP.
There are Germans, Swedes, Danes, Slovenians and South Africans working in Zurich, some of them for many years already.
It is very busy, but that's what makes it interesting, too.
As an ATCO, giving up your position to go somewhere else, doing SIM and OJT again, is a very brave move, also not knowing what really to expect (and believe me I know what I'm talking about!).
It can be a very good experience, but it can also be very sobering.
The catch is, that you only really know how it is once you are working there.
I appreciate your comments, but one should probably differentiate a little:
As for the "very expensive" bit, one has to know that health insurance premiums and taxes are considerably higher in Geneva than in Zurich.
The positions advertised are for Zurich TWR/APP.
There are Germans, Swedes, Danes, Slovenians and South Africans working in Zurich, some of them for many years already.
It is very busy, but that's what makes it interesting, too.
As an ATCO, giving up your position to go somewhere else, doing SIM and OJT again, is a very brave move, also not knowing what really to expect (and believe me I know what I'm talking about!).
It can be a very good experience, but it can also be very sobering.
The catch is, that you only really know how it is once you are working there.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 50
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From: Everywhere
Spuds check your PM's.
So how much of the co-ordination in TWR/APP at ZRH is conducted in German?
EuroATC
So what's the sim test like traffic wise? is it based on the airspace concerned?
Sounds like a good place though!
So how much of the co-ordination in TWR/APP at ZRH is conducted in German?
EuroATC
So what's the sim test like traffic wise? is it based on the airspace concerned?
Sounds like a good place though!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: In the CIR
Agree with Euro-ATC about the language skills. If you don’t speak the lingo, don’t bother. TWR does all its coordination with the apron office and vehicles in German. Most internal coordination is in German too.
Never heard of anyone in Zurich having had to do a sim check. We certainly never did. The interview itself lasts about 90min after which you usually sit around in the ops room while the other candidates have their turn. And then you end up going to lunch(paid for). They don’t make you an offer on the spot over here, but rather after about a week or two. Unless they learnt to work much faster on the admin side, which I doubt!
All in all though, not a bad company to work for.
Never heard of anyone in Zurich having had to do a sim check. We certainly never did. The interview itself lasts about 90min after which you usually sit around in the ops room while the other candidates have their turn. And then you end up going to lunch(paid for). They don’t make you an offer on the spot over here, but rather after about a week or two. Unless they learnt to work much faster on the admin side, which I doubt!
All in all though, not a bad company to work for.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Geneva
In response to spuds...
1. Health insurance is not what's gonna make the big difference.. every canton's prices are different.. ok. In Geneva I was paying 230CHF a month.. big deal so even if Zurich is half price it's not 120 CHF that's gonna make you go broke. I understand the job is for Zurich TWR/APP but if you want to work in Geneva just call Skyguide they always need people. The guys there have been bugging me to come back ever since I left.
2. I know there are many expats working in both Geneva and Zurich. I can give you all their names and numbers if you wish to contact them. As for being busy, the point was.. if you can't speak the lingo don't bother cuz you ain't gonna validate.
3. Yes I agree.. I have done it twice now.. I left Canada to work in Geneva and then left Geneva to work further to the east.. Not easy for sure. You are also right, you only will know how it is once you get there but take people's advice if you have the luxury to do so. I have seen too many people try and work in Switzerland saying "i'll learn the language" and it NEVER works out. French is my first language and I could not imagine someone trying to work in that environment without having my level of french.
1. Health insurance is not what's gonna make the big difference.. every canton's prices are different.. ok. In Geneva I was paying 230CHF a month.. big deal so even if Zurich is half price it's not 120 CHF that's gonna make you go broke. I understand the job is for Zurich TWR/APP but if you want to work in Geneva just call Skyguide they always need people. The guys there have been bugging me to come back ever since I left.
2. I know there are many expats working in both Geneva and Zurich. I can give you all their names and numbers if you wish to contact them. As for being busy, the point was.. if you can't speak the lingo don't bother cuz you ain't gonna validate.
3. Yes I agree.. I have done it twice now.. I left Canada to work in Geneva and then left Geneva to work further to the east.. Not easy for sure. You are also right, you only will know how it is once you get there but take people's advice if you have the luxury to do so. I have seen too many people try and work in Switzerland saying "i'll learn the language" and it NEVER works out. French is my first language and I could not imagine someone trying to work in that environment without having my level of french.
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
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From: Around the corner
EuroATC,
Of course it isn't the health insurance premium that makes the difference.
But tax does, and in this case (comparing GVA with ZRH) big time.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to encourage people to apply, without fulfilling the basic requirements.
However, it is not the case that french (in GVA) or german (in ZRH) would have to be your first language (as you suggest) in order to be able to validate.
Just think of all the swiss germans working in GVA...
Of course it isn't the health insurance premium that makes the difference.
But tax does, and in this case (comparing GVA with ZRH) big time.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to encourage people to apply, without fulfilling the basic requirements.
However, it is not the case that french (in GVA) or german (in ZRH) would have to be your first language (as you suggest) in order to be able to validate.
Just think of all the swiss germans working in GVA...
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Geneva
Hey Spuds.. how much difference do you think there is between tax in Geneva and taxes in Zurich?
Swiss Germans working in Geneva.. yeah they speak french quite well but alot of them also coordinate in German between themselves...
If you are not employed by Skyguide I don't see how you are in a position to make comments as you do. I worked there and seen many fail and mainly because of language barriers. I am not saying french or german has to be your first language.. what I am saying is that you gotta have a REAL good knowledge otherwise you are waisting your time.
Just for information, those who "learned" french to get by are not that well received in Geneva because even though they can "get by" it's still not great and socially some if not most of these people don't fit in. I can think of only 1 who really fit in well after he learned french but his wife was french and he was really dedicated to learn it.
It's up to you, take the chance, quit your job, and give it a go.
Another thing that most don't consider.. is social integration.. Although you can "get by" in Switzerland on english it makes for alot better of an experience if you can speak their language.
Swiss Germans working in Geneva.. yeah they speak french quite well but alot of them also coordinate in German between themselves...
If you are not employed by Skyguide I don't see how you are in a position to make comments as you do. I worked there and seen many fail and mainly because of language barriers. I am not saying french or german has to be your first language.. what I am saying is that you gotta have a REAL good knowledge otherwise you are waisting your time.
Just for information, those who "learned" french to get by are not that well received in Geneva because even though they can "get by" it's still not great and socially some if not most of these people don't fit in. I can think of only 1 who really fit in well after he learned french but his wife was french and he was really dedicated to learn it.
It's up to you, take the chance, quit your job, and give it a go.
Another thing that most don't consider.. is social integration.. Although you can "get by" in Switzerland on english it makes for alot better of an experience if you can speak their language.
Thread Starter
The Original Party Animal
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Around the corner
EuroATC,
Take it easy, don't get hyped up mate.
I know that it can be a hard life in the Romandie as a non-"Welsch". Especially GVA TWR/APP is well known for axing swiss germans. They don't stand a chance (at least it used to be like that, maybe it has changed by now).
Admittedly, the difference in tax is probably not as big, if you're on a B permit, since you get taxed on the source.
With a C permit (I believe) and for a local, the difference is definitely considerable.
Concerning being "in the position to make such comments" check your PM's.
Take it easy, don't get hyped up mate.
I know that it can be a hard life in the Romandie as a non-"Welsch". Especially GVA TWR/APP is well known for axing swiss germans. They don't stand a chance (at least it used to be like that, maybe it has changed by now).
Admittedly, the difference in tax is probably not as big, if you're on a B permit, since you get taxed on the source.
With a C permit (I believe) and for a local, the difference is definitely considerable.
Concerning being "in the position to make such comments" check your PM's.