Student ATCO - Know of any vacancies?

[Brian81]

Hi guys(& girls).

I've recently completed my aerodrome (visual control room) training with NATS at the Bournemouth ATMDC. I've got the little yellow book with a licence and a couple of valid medical certificates (class 1 & 2).

I'm now looking for a airfield with an Air Traffic Control unit that would be willing to take me on, with a view to validating my licence and getting me up to speed on my Approach Radar training. I'm looking to settle down (ie-stay with the airfield) and continue the career I've wanted all my life...

Im at the final stepping stone to the greener grass...

If anyone can help (or you've heard anything on the internal grapevine) or you know of any local postings, please let me know.

Cheers guys(& girls).

Brian.
[email protected]

[Barnaby the Bear]

Brian81,

You have your work cut out for you. It is difficult to find a position with a Student tower only licence. But not impossible!
I was in exactly the same situation a couple of years ago.

My advice would be to get your CV up to scratch. Pick the units you would like to work at, and visit the SATCO ( in person if you can).
Remember, each unit is bombarded with CV's, you need to stand out!
I wish you all the best in your search. Don't give up its worth it in the end!

[niknak]

Brian,
The Bear is quite right, and it's very important that you approach the problem in the right manner, until not so long ago I used to review such applications on a regular basis, and you wouldn't believe some of the expectations that were expressed.

At the moment, there are many people in your situation, and their's more chance of Red Rum winning next year's London Marathon than being taken on as a student/trainee atco, so I strongly suggest that when you apply, you emphasise that you are looking to be employed as an Air Traffic Assistant initially, with an ambition to progress within the unit.

I suggest that you telephone each unit Air Traffic Services Manager - be persistant but not pushy in wanting to talk to them - then immediately follow up the call with a CV to them.

You're not alone, and the competition is very strong - but if you can find somewhere to go, keep your head down and work hard, you'll get what you want out of it.

If you want further info, PM me.

[VectorLine]

Like most units, Manston are trying to recruit ATCOs with tower, Approach and approach radar. However - they are short staffed and I know they are trying to recruit more ATCOs. You might want to try them.

I spoke to the Manager ATC recently and he has a lot of ambition for the place. They are even going to get new radar displays and SSR soon!

[Brian81]

Thanks for everyones advice and support. I tried emailing a company called SafeSkies, the reply was a little confusing;

"You have told the ATC world that you are desperate for a job anywhere and therefore your loyalty to remain at one airport has been questioned. As a staff provider, we cannot offer your services to airports because they can claim that they already have your application so they need not pay us a finders fee.
We cannot help you."

??????????????????????????????????

Anyway, I shall Persevere, because this is the career I've wanted all my life... I'm not giving in because of one bizzarre email. I'm slightly concerned, because I've worked so hard for this licence and it effectively becomes invalid 13 months after issue. The thing is, Im SO enthusiastic and positive about this - its just this last step...

I'm the last of a dying breed - NATS aren't going to be training aerodrome students as standard anymore, its either area or approach training as picked... Which makes me feel even more anxious, the last of the nats 'freebies'.

Keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers guys.

Brian.

[boynefly]

SafeSkys eh - you wouldn't expect that sort of response would you?

[VectorLine]

You can also try the Helicopter aerodrome in London (Batersea Park???). They might need ATCOs, although Im sure the pay wont be great. I know of a couple of ATSAs from LATCC who used to work part time there. Because they had the tower licence only NATS wouldn't let them be ATCOs, but they got ATSA jobs and kept their licences going that way

VL

[This is a crisis]

Brian...I really feel for you, you have a difficult task ahead.

I think one of the first problems you need to sort is to actually get your first certificate of competency (we used to call it validate!!) How you achieve this is a difficult one. At my unit we have had lots of people who say they are willing to work for nothing in order to get an Aerodrome to 'sponsor' them for their first validation. Unfortunately this is not as easy as it sounds because, mainly for Insurance purposes, you have to be employed. Bearing in mind that you, I think, have to do a minimum of 180 hours at no more than 4 hours a day, you are going to be tied up for quite a while. I would suggest trying to get a position as an ATSA at a unit. Once you are employed, you may be able to get the aerodrome to be your 'sponsor' even if it means doing your 4 hours at the end of a shift or even days off. This has a lot of advantages for the unit too - they are getting someone who is trained and they have not had to pay for it! and an ATSA with a valid ADC ticket is a very handy asset - able to cover for sickness etc.

Once you have your first certificate of competency, you instantly become much more employable. You dont say whether you were a NATS Cadet or whether you have paid for the training yourself. If you are self sponsored, just consider the following. There are still lots of aerodromes without Radar and very soon, ATCOs with pure Approach Ratings are going to be as scarce as hens teeth!!! We are still one of the few units that require ATCOs to have both APC and APR ratings (basically because we only have access to one radar system which has to go out of service now and then) I am not saying you should do it but it may be worth considering an Approach Rating once you have got your first certificate of competency. Getting a full time job with just a Tower rating is very difficult - put an Approach rating with it and it opens up access to all sorts of places from Lands End to the Orkneys!!

Once you have at least two ratings, aerodromes, if they like you, quite often sponsor you for the third one. We have recently employed a Nats ATCO who had Aerodrome and Approach Radar. We provided him with an Approach Rating.

Sorry, realise I have gone on a bit here . If I can be of any more help dont hesitate to get in touch.

[Dan Dare]

Have you considered Swansea? I think they're still after people. Try Leo Marriott at Shearwater Training

Keep persevering for that first validation, and don't hang about. The new European rules only give you 6 months to start you MER!

Good luck.

[Special VFR]

Try all the non-NATS units. Tees-side are short, and Bristol were looking recently ( ) Depends whether they want people with APP and APP Radar. Just keep trying.

Oh, and don't bother with Safeskies . . .

[Brian81]

wilco

I cant thank everyone enough for all the help and support you're giving me.

I have sent a letter to Swansea a couple of days ago, Teeside and Bristol were also on my hit list.

It's a bit dissapointing when the airfields I've written to so far, have said "no thanks", but I come on here to check for messages and I leave 'refuelled with confidence'.

Honestly guys, it means a lot to think that the 'insiders' are rooting for me too.

Any advice or words of encouragement are very welcome.

Cheers everyone.

Bri

[yaffs]

if its a help, high wycombe (booker) was looking for twr folk recently
best of luck in your search, i know it aint easy

yaffs

[aluminium persuader]

Battersea is a SERCo contract Try contacting their HQ also at Hook, Hants. Sorry, don't have further contact details on me.

[ILS 119.5]

Why not try a career development loan for your procedural course and then when successful it will substantiate your desire to work as an ATCO and also make you more attractive to potential employers. Ring Sheerwater for costs and availability. There have been lots of Pilots and Atcos who have self funded. I know it may be expensive but in the end it will pay off, and as there are a lot of twr only ex cadets out there you will find it difficult to get a job I'm sorry to say.
Hope you make it.

[Voroff]

If he is self funded though he will have an advantage over failed nats cadets.

As he has shown the desire(self funding) and is unlikely too have a five year bar on achieving a radar rating.

[ILS 119.5]

Exactly, if I was looking for a new pilot/atco then to me someone who has shown committment to pursue the self funding route would be a more committed person to the job rather than someone who is just relying on their future employer to pay them through. Of course they would have an advantage over other failed cadets with twr only ratings, and so they should.

[360BakTrak]

I'd steer clear of safeskys if I were you!

[Brian81]

roger. Maintaining own seperation from safeskies...lol

I can agree with your thoughts on self-funding my radar rating, but isnt that a *little(!)* bit expensive?

As I understand it, the maximum career development loan amount is 8000?

I dont know, (yet), but I assumed radar ratings were in the region of the late 20k's.

Im already in student debt from before my ATCO training. I dont want to get myself into more debt. and what worries me also is - what if I dont pass the rating exams? I'll have wasted lost of money, and lost the oppurtunity of *the* well paid job to pay back the loan... ??

Ive had another idea, but I can see the bad points of it.

Get employment with a tower only airfield (without radar).

Whilst doing my validation training there (and earning money), do the radar course in the background... but then again, it'll seem a bit 'un-commited' to the airfield, if Im going off, bettering myself... disregard.

I want to get into this career so badly... I'd do anything. Personal loan here I come...

Bri.

[Chilli Monster]

Before you spend the money I'd suggest some research into the market.

For example - do you actually know how many ADC only airfields there are outside of NATS?

Wycombe
Barkston Heath
Redhill
Lands End
Sumburgh (operated by HIAL)

Your best bet would be try these first, getting a job and getting that first CofC. Without that the rest of the market will just consider you untried and untested. If you impress enough later you'll get another job whith an employer who will put you through the rest of the ratings.

Paying for yourself is a huge gamble. I know, I did it for ADC. Luckily it paid off and I got a job and someone else to pay for the other ratings, but the worry of whether you've just wasted a load of cash on top of the stresses of the courses makes life that little bit harder and could be the deciding factor of whether you pass or fail. I know of others who haven't been so lucky.

Best of luck, and I wish you every success.

[rodan]

I can agree with your thoughts on self-funding my radar rating, but isnt that a *little(!)* bit expensive?

A radar rating could well be too expensive, low £20k's last time I checked. I think what ILS 119.5 was suggesting was self-financing the Approach Procedural (APC, not APR) course, which costs substantially less but is still a hefty investment (mid £10k's?). As an ex-NATS tower only student, it may be wise to consider that you will find it hard to get employment with a radar unit - most ex-NATS folk like yourself seem to find employment with units that do procedural approach. However, getting a procedural approach ticket, (which you will need to work at many non-NATS radar units anyway), would elevate you substantially in the job market.

P.S. - You have PM.