NATS Pay/WP
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fidgell
Sorry you had to resort to expletives, always a bad sign.
A quick glance through todays capacities and sector loads does not support your claim.
The capacity of EGCCSE is 42/60, although when it gets anywhere near that the sector seems to be split into STAFA and TRENT.
There are many more sectors throughout Europe with higher capacities and higher traffic loads.
Here's a list:
Bordeaux
Z2 sector 43/60
ZX2 45/60
USU2 44/60
Marseille
BB sector 45/60
YY sector 46/60
GY sector 50/60
Paris
UPTJ sector 48/60
Madrid
TMA North 45/60
Munich
UR1 sector 48/60
Karlsruhe(Rhine control)
FFM high 44/60
FFM middle 44/60
Maastricht
Brussels high 45/60
West Low 50/60 (although they often take more)
and you're not going to like this
London
Lakes 3+4 46/60
DTY south 45/60
Seaford 50/60
Dover/Lyd 46/60
London TC
Cowley (2 controllers) 55/60
(1 controller) 45/60
It was a simple question I asked you, don't know why you got so ratty.
Well, maybe I do now.
Sorry you had to resort to expletives, always a bad sign.
A quick glance through todays capacities and sector loads does not support your claim.
The capacity of EGCCSE is 42/60, although when it gets anywhere near that the sector seems to be split into STAFA and TRENT.
There are many more sectors throughout Europe with higher capacities and higher traffic loads.
Here's a list:
Bordeaux
Z2 sector 43/60
ZX2 45/60
USU2 44/60
Marseille
BB sector 45/60
YY sector 46/60
GY sector 50/60
Paris
UPTJ sector 48/60
Madrid
TMA North 45/60
Munich
UR1 sector 48/60
Karlsruhe(Rhine control)
FFM high 44/60
FFM middle 44/60
Maastricht
Brussels high 45/60
West Low 50/60 (although they often take more)
and you're not going to like this
London
Lakes 3+4 46/60
DTY south 45/60
Seaford 50/60
Dover/Lyd 46/60
London TC
Cowley (2 controllers) 55/60
(1 controller) 45/60
It was a simple question I asked you, don't know why you got so ratty.
Well, maybe I do now.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Hahnlein
Age: 64
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Niteflight,
I would love to move to the NATS forum but any time I have tried, I have failed to be accepted, a nice forum for you at LACC but any time I have complained to the moderator (once) I was slapped down!
I would love to move to the NATS forum but any time I have tried, I have failed to be accepted, a nice forum for you at LACC but any time I have complained to the moderator (once) I was slapped down!
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're a NATS eomployee with a staff number you shouldn't have any problems at all and it certainly isn't all LACC there by any means I assure you 
Try contacting the moderator of the NATS forum again and asking for access.
Try contacting the moderator of the NATS forum again and asking for access.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent post from 5miles and the flowmeiester vis a vis stats
I can't think of a single person at MACC who doesn't agree that those in the Band 5 Units deserve more money than the rest of us who live in cheaper areas. Its the amount that p
s people off ...and the shabby way they tried to justify it.
Can 35 pages be cut and pasted into the NATS forum ??
I can't think of a single person at MACC who doesn't agree that those in the Band 5 Units deserve more money than the rest of us who live in cheaper areas. Its the amount that p
s people off ...and the shabby way they tried to justify it.Can 35 pages be cut and pasted into the NATS forum ??
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: north
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flowman
nice bit of numbers, the higher the number in 60 means that the sector is not very complexed. Otherwise it couldnt take the traffic. Not sure if the title comes with just the traffic numbers. Might be to do with the number of times it hits capacity.
Cheaper areas???????have you looked at the prices of houses around LACC you might find it ia cheaper than you think or is a pool to be included.
nice bit of numbers, the higher the number in 60 means that the sector is not very complexed. Otherwise it couldnt take the traffic. Not sure if the title comes with just the traffic numbers. Might be to do with the number of times it hits capacity.
Cheaper areas???????have you looked at the prices of houses around LACC you might find it ia cheaper than you think or is a pool to be included.
Last edited by dvdr; 13th Feb 2004 at 08:34.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: London Control, UK
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dvdr, I think the house price comparison you mention is a red herring. Have a look here at the land registry's searchable database of house prices:
http://www.landreg.gov.uk/propertyprice/default.asp
I'm not sure in which areas people at MACC live, but a quick search and comparison between Manchester and Hampshire (LACC) shows a large difference. Rather than being cheaper than I think, it seems even worse. Would love a pool myself and personally only know one controller that has one, including the double ATCO income couples.
What makes you feel its cheaper to live here?
http://www.landreg.gov.uk/propertyprice/default.asp
I'm not sure in which areas people at MACC live, but a quick search and comparison between Manchester and Hampshire (LACC) shows a large difference. Rather than being cheaper than I think, it seems even worse. Would love a pool myself and personally only know one controller that has one, including the double ATCO income couples.
What makes you feel its cheaper to live here?
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: north
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By looking at the estate agents within 40 mile radius. I feel sorry for the guys from MACC. Of late there has been a surge in house prices in ayrshire. There is alot of places in ayrshire not to live! The announcement of the A77 to become M77 has moved houses further. MACC when it comes will influence house prices here greatly(small area) and resources in housing are low.
The other problem is offers over in Scotland. The price you see in the estate agents is regularly 40% to 50% more when you bid. Another difference is when you bid and it is accepted you cant pull out without paying.
ATCO some years back chatting in the canteen had just moved up from down south. When ask about his house searching he said i have bid for two and both have been accepted, now I am deciding which one to take. The colour drained as he was told he would now own two houses. There is a marked house price change as you go down the M3.
The other problem is offers over in Scotland. The price you see in the estate agents is regularly 40% to 50% more when you bid. Another difference is when you bid and it is accepted you cant pull out without paying.
ATCO some years back chatting in the canteen had just moved up from down south. When ask about his house searching he said i have bid for two and both have been accepted, now I am deciding which one to take. The colour drained as he was told he would now own two houses. There is a marked house price change as you go down the M3.
Last edited by dvdr; 13th Feb 2004 at 18:54.
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23c
Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
You had stated that you tried once via private message but my mail box was full. I asked you to try again either by that method or via email. You stated that joining the NATS Forum was too much like hard work.
The choice as to whether you tried again was up to you .... and to the best of my knowledge you didn't.
There are approximately 180+ NATS members who have successfully negotiated the process. It ain't that difficult really
I would love to move to the NATS forum but any time I have tried, I have failed to be accepted, a nice forum for you at LACC but any time I have complained to the moderator (once) I was slapped down!
You had stated that you tried once via private message but my mail box was full. I asked you to try again either by that method or via email. You stated that joining the NATS Forum was too much like hard work.
The choice as to whether you tried again was up to you .... and to the best of my knowledge you didn't.
There are approximately 180+ NATS members who have successfully negotiated the process. It ain't that difficult really
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hants, UK
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, dvdr, you seem to be determined to be blinkered. The Land Registry website gives all the info you need. It gives the AVERAGE house price (which includes ATCO-desirable and non-desirable houses and areas that you mention) for each area.
For Detached houses, the average figures are as follows:
Greater Manchester £207029
Shropshire £224878
Dorset £280812
Hampshire £313537
Unfortunately it does not cover Scotland.
It seems fairly conclusive to me that "There is a marked house price change as you go down the M3" or even the M6/M40/A34.
I have a friend who moved from LTCC to ScACC. For what he got for his 3-bed semi in the Home Counties he bought a newish 4-bed detached in Ayrshire. (No pool, though!)
Anything to counter that?
For Detached houses, the average figures are as follows:
Greater Manchester £207029
Shropshire £224878
Dorset £280812
Hampshire £313537
Unfortunately it does not cover Scotland.
It seems fairly conclusive to me that "There is a marked house price change as you go down the M3" or even the M6/M40/A34.
I have a friend who moved from LTCC to ScACC. For what he got for his 3-bed semi in the Home Counties he bought a newish 4-bed detached in Ayrshire. (No pool, though!)
Anything to counter that?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course, to be fair, Greater Manchester takes in large areas that are beyond reasonable commuting distance. You'd get a better impression with the figure from Cheshire, especially when you consider that Ringway was in Cheshire until 1931 (I think) when it was absorbed by the City Of Manchester.
This gives a figure of 247482 (I see you've gone with the detached house price), which doesn't seem to do your case that much damage
As to the relevance of Shropshire
This gives a figure of 247482 (I see you've gone with the detached house price), which doesn't seem to do your case that much damage
As to the relevance of Shropshire
Last edited by Don't Tell Him Pike; 14th Feb 2004 at 09:03.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
flowman
Nice try! You could hit some people with a brick wall and they would still swear they didn't see it. Just finished two night duties at LACC and unfortunately the world's busiest sector seemed completely devoid of traffic.....but we are having our equipment checked. Meanwhile an armada of high-revenue aluminium passed over our sleeping shires on its eastward journey.
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
055166k
I don't think there's any real need for the childish sarcasm mate do you?
There's enough animosity as there is without further stoking of the embers by any one of a number of Devil's advocates around here. Especially deliberately antagonistic ones.
I would suggest too that it's not just your equipment that you should be checking.
Try checking the relevance and necessity of your last post
There's enough animosity as there is without further stoking of the embers by any one of a number of Devil's advocates around here. Especially deliberately antagonistic ones.
I would suggest too that it's not just your equipment that you should be checking.
Try checking the relevance and necessity of your last post
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
niteflite
Sorry! In all seriousness I would however point out that an essential element in the complexity model was one of continuosity. I know that many of us can take an enormous belt of traffic for short periods, often well in excess of TSF; but prolonged exposure to four-dimensionally complex problems leads to brain burn-out. I think the banding is meant to take account of the overpowering effect of relentless demand rather than short term surges. Actually my comment to flowman was a tongue-in-cheek kind of "thank you" for the factual response, and in no way sought to denegrate the very real contribution made by MACC colleagues and others. The forthcoming voting opportunity will reflect the effectiveness of the many points of view so freely given on this subject.
I'm Just A Lawnmower
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Over the hills and faraway
Age: 62
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well my ballot paper has just dropped through the letter box along with a missive from the BEC explaining just why I should vote Yes to the offer.
Basically they are saying:
1)That if we vote No we are chucking £6.2 million down the drain - fair point.
2)That we should trust the grading model although they admit it is imperfect and will change it next time around - somewhat flawed point IMHO.
So, they conclude, if you vote No you are shooting yourself in the foot over a matter of principal.
I know where my cross is going.
Basically they are saying:
1)That if we vote No we are chucking £6.2 million down the drain - fair point.
2)That we should trust the grading model although they admit it is imperfect and will change it next time around - somewhat flawed point IMHO.
So, they conclude, if you vote No you are shooting yourself in the foot over a matter of principal.
I know where my cross is going.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MACC
A point I've made before, MACC have consistently shoe-horned more traffic into Sector29 than LATCC ever did, and arguably that contributed significantly to the viability of NERC. I have been swayed by the very heart-felt comments particularly from Scottish colleagues, and whereas I will never vote against a Union recommendation, an abstention is an option worthy of consideration. To repeat an earlier post.....I don't want to have to make telephone co-ordinations with someone who hates my guts.....and there is a safety angle in there somewhere. RGDS.