NATS Pay/WP
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I probably shouldn't rise to it but hey it's what this forums for!
Oh thank you Me, Me, Me, now you've pointed out the error of my ways, I should be thankful that I'm paid what I am. In fact I should go out and donate any excess I have to the nearest charity.
Don't want to be accused of having a god complex or anything but I damn well earnt every penny I get, so does every other controller, no matter where they work. As house prices and living costs keep rising then I'm damn sure I want my wage to do the same. I don't work in the UK anymore but it would be a stretch, financially, just to move back to a job in the UK because it costs so much to live there.
From reading the posts on this thread it's obvious that NATS is going down the same old road of divide and conquer, it's not the first time they've done it and it won't be the last. It's not about whether another controller gets paid more than you, it's about your company showing how it values it's staff. I know my company doesn't
and it certainly looks like Nats don't either.
FT
Oh thank you Me, Me, Me, now you've pointed out the error of my ways, I should be thankful that I'm paid what I am. In fact I should go out and donate any excess I have to the nearest charity.
Don't want to be accused of having a god complex or anything but I damn well earnt every penny I get, so does every other controller, no matter where they work. As house prices and living costs keep rising then I'm damn sure I want my wage to do the same. I don't work in the UK anymore but it would be a stretch, financially, just to move back to a job in the UK because it costs so much to live there.
From reading the posts on this thread it's obvious that NATS is going down the same old road of divide and conquer, it's not the first time they've done it and it won't be the last. It's not about whether another controller gets paid more than you, it's about your company showing how it values it's staff. I know my company doesn't
and it certainly looks like Nats don't either.FT
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I thought I saw the grades ( ATCO 0-5 ) for each unit but now cannot find them, any one got them?
Found them ta........
Found them ta........
Last edited by 10 DME ARC; 22nd Jan 2004 at 19:04.
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Taken from the latest Prospect Circular
The proposed new structure
The grading is based around agreed criteria including traffic volume, traffic complexity and sustained traffic loading. These criteria, along with others, form the basis of each units score.
Your unit score, in simplistic terms, reflects how busy and complex you are. Your unit is then ranked according to your unit score. Units are then placed within bands off a single pay spine related to a new pay structure.
To ensure that the criteria and Unit data were as accurate and pertinent as possible, a joint management/Prospect team visited units to ensure that the criteria were relevant.
Since the inception of the ATCO2, ATCO3 terminology, the membership has indicated that these terms are divisive. It is the intention of the new structure to ultimately eliminate this terminology, so ATCOs will be referred to in terms of their unit, i.e. a Glasgow ATCO, or a Swanwick ATCO. The banding of units refers only to where your unit sits in relation to another, rather than ATCO band 5 or ATCO band 1.
No valid ATCOs have been `downgraded` or will receive a cut in pay. The ATCO 3 salary levels form the basis of the structure. All units will receive a ½ increment buy-in for the new structure. A banded structure however must, by definition, have differentials between the bands, and therefore, additional monies were targetted to the various bands.
For sometime there have been indications that Stansted needed to be regraded within the existing structure. Indeed, it is branch policy to make that unit an ATCO 2 unit. Having completed the model, it became evident that Birmingham’s score was similar to that of Stansted. This resulted in these airfields being banded together.
It is important that members attend the salaries and structures briefings to ensure that the membership has a complete understanding of the proposed structure and the principles and practicalities behind its current construct.
Whilst to some it seems emotive, the new structure has potential benefits for all Units.
Change is never easy, but the new structure provides a mechanism for continuous improvements for all units that do not exist within the current structure.
The banding of units forms stage 1 of the structure proposal. Important issues, such as UHP, OJTI, LCE and Supervisory/SCOD differentials will form part two of the structure, to be negotiated for implementation on 1 April 2006.
A list of briefing dates is attached within this circular. It is important that members attend to receive a comprehensive briefing on all aspects of the working practices and structure proposals before voting in the ballot.
ATCOs BEC
What a load of B*ll*cks
The proposed new structure
The grading is based around agreed criteria including traffic volume, traffic complexity and sustained traffic loading. These criteria, along with others, form the basis of each units score.
Your unit score, in simplistic terms, reflects how busy and complex you are. Your unit is then ranked according to your unit score. Units are then placed within bands off a single pay spine related to a new pay structure.
To ensure that the criteria and Unit data were as accurate and pertinent as possible, a joint management/Prospect team visited units to ensure that the criteria were relevant.
Since the inception of the ATCO2, ATCO3 terminology, the membership has indicated that these terms are divisive. It is the intention of the new structure to ultimately eliminate this terminology, so ATCOs will be referred to in terms of their unit, i.e. a Glasgow ATCO, or a Swanwick ATCO. The banding of units refers only to where your unit sits in relation to another, rather than ATCO band 5 or ATCO band 1.
No valid ATCOs have been `downgraded` or will receive a cut in pay. The ATCO 3 salary levels form the basis of the structure. All units will receive a ½ increment buy-in for the new structure. A banded structure however must, by definition, have differentials between the bands, and therefore, additional monies were targetted to the various bands.
For sometime there have been indications that Stansted needed to be regraded within the existing structure. Indeed, it is branch policy to make that unit an ATCO 2 unit. Having completed the model, it became evident that Birmingham’s score was similar to that of Stansted. This resulted in these airfields being banded together.
It is important that members attend the salaries and structures briefings to ensure that the membership has a complete understanding of the proposed structure and the principles and practicalities behind its current construct.
Whilst to some it seems emotive, the new structure has potential benefits for all Units.
Change is never easy, but the new structure provides a mechanism for continuous improvements for all units that do not exist within the current structure.
The banding of units forms stage 1 of the structure proposal. Important issues, such as UHP, OJTI, LCE and Supervisory/SCOD differentials will form part two of the structure, to be negotiated for implementation on 1 April 2006.
A list of briefing dates is attached within this circular. It is important that members attend to receive a comprehensive briefing on all aspects of the working practices and structure proposals before voting in the ballot.
ATCOs BEC
What a load of B*ll*cks
Join Date: Sep 2002
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If this is the view of Prospect then my resignation will be with them once the votes have been counted.
They say ATCO 2/3 was divisive, what do they think this is?
This last week I have worked non stop not having a chance to catch my breathe , but the work is outside CAS so non quantifiable according to my union and thus doesn't count.
Oh well, i think the TGWU represents a number of airline pilots maybe a new union representing ATCO, Engineers and ATSAs is the way to go. Those at LACC . LTCC and EGLL should keep Prospect ,let the rest of us have a union that will also consider everyone else.
They say ATCO 2/3 was divisive, what do they think this is?
This last week I have worked non stop not having a chance to catch my breathe , but the work is outside CAS so non quantifiable according to my union and thus doesn't count.
Oh well, i think the TGWU represents a number of airline pilots maybe a new union representing ATCO, Engineers and ATSAs is the way to go. Those at LACC . LTCC and EGLL should keep Prospect ,let the rest of us have a union that will also consider everyone else.
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Arran's View
ATCO pay, WP and Structure circular.
All members should receive a hard copy in todays mail, I hope that answers your question.
Greebson
I think we all know what band our friend DME 4 is, interesting that the only contribution made is one of sarcasm on a subject that is very emotive to many of the contributors to this forum.
ATCO pay, WP and Structure circular.
All members should receive a hard copy in todays mail, I hope that answers your question.
Greebson
I think we all know what band our friend DME 4 is, interesting that the only contribution made is one of sarcasm on a subject that is very emotive to many of the contributors to this forum.
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I have a feeling that these will be the best attended union briefings in the history of Prospect.
I just hope that they take note of the dissatisfaction of the memership and realise the potential implications of going ahead with recommending this offer.
I just hope that they take note of the dissatisfaction of the memership and realise the potential implications of going ahead with recommending this offer.
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The Offer
Best deal I've ever seen, marvellous. Well done to all the Prospect Team involved. As for the chaps/chapesses that don't like the offer.....the door is over there.....please close it on your way out......the rest of us are working.
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Charming.
I suspect you (055166K) work at a Band 5 unit, and are looking at your 15% rise with big eyes, while not giving a toss about anyone else...
That's the exact reason that is bothering the Band 1 units. It's the grading, the ignoring of radar outside controlled airspace, especially so at Farnborough, and the greed of the higher units.
Separate the pay vote from the grading - give us a chance.
Sonic
I suspect you (055166K) work at a Band 5 unit, and are looking at your 15% rise with big eyes, while not giving a toss about anyone else...
That's the exact reason that is bothering the Band 1 units. It's the grading, the ignoring of radar outside controlled airspace, especially so at Farnborough, and the greed of the higher units.
Separate the pay vote from the grading - give us a chance.
Sonic
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Gonzo,
It's not the pay issue we are up in arms about, if an 8.7% rise were on the table for everyone, then I'm sure a YES vote would follow.
The pay deal is not the issue and the 6.7% on offer is under the circumstances a reasonable offer.
What is unjust is the re-grading issue, yes the LL TC LACC controllers deserve to be at the highest grade and you won't find anyone at the regional airports objecting to this.
What we object to is the "non-quantifiable" aspect of the job that we do not being considered as part of the re-grading. I would expect Cardiff to be handing back their delegated airspace pretty darned quickly and all the other units refusing to provide a service outside controlled airspace and leave it all the the guys at the centres to be providing FIS, RIS, RAS until such time as an aircraft enters our CONTROLLED airspace and then becomes a quantifiable movement.
I would reckon that the centres would soon be up in arms at all the EXTRA work that they have to do with these MANY movements, but hey they are getting the bick bucks for doing it but then again these movements aren't quantifiable so they couldn't possibly add to the workload.
It's not the pay issue we are up in arms about, if an 8.7% rise were on the table for everyone, then I'm sure a YES vote would follow.
The pay deal is not the issue and the 6.7% on offer is under the circumstances a reasonable offer.
What is unjust is the re-grading issue, yes the LL TC LACC controllers deserve to be at the highest grade and you won't find anyone at the regional airports objecting to this.
What we object to is the "non-quantifiable" aspect of the job that we do not being considered as part of the re-grading. I would expect Cardiff to be handing back their delegated airspace pretty darned quickly and all the other units refusing to provide a service outside controlled airspace and leave it all the the guys at the centres to be providing FIS, RIS, RAS until such time as an aircraft enters our CONTROLLED airspace and then becomes a quantifiable movement.
I would reckon that the centres would soon be up in arms at all the EXTRA work that they have to do with these MANY movements, but hey they are getting the bick bucks for doing it but then again these movements aren't quantifiable so they couldn't possibly add to the workload.
Watchdog Delta Hotel
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gonzo i think you miss the point here
the pay rise is the two year deal 3.4% first year and that rpi one for the second year that we said we wern't going for in the first place
don't add the re grading and changes in wpp to the pay rise because that is payed for by oddly working more or being screwed by the company
( cani got ther 1 min before and expressed it much better)
the pay rise is the two year deal 3.4% first year and that rpi one for the second year that we said we wern't going for in the first place
don't add the re grading and changes in wpp to the pay rise because that is payed for by oddly working more or being screwed by the company
( cani got ther 1 min before and expressed it much better)
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I can't speak for Sonic but the pay rise is actually 6.6% over 2 years, under the current climate that is a pretty good pay rise. The 2% is a bung to regrade, Prospect say that we are not getting downgraded but that's what it feels like here.
My anger is not the money issues but the downgrading.
055166k Careful you don't fall asleep at the wheel driving in for one of those 0530 starts
My anger is not the money issues but the downgrading.
055166k Careful you don't fall asleep at the wheel driving in for one of those 0530 starts