NATS Pay/WP
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I would gladly go and work at Farnborough..... I have never in my entire career cared about the money... I've wanted to be an air traffic controller since I was a youngster and so I am just happy that I have a job doing something I enjoy and that I am fit and well enough to enjoy the benefits of it (staff travel, cheap car insurance, cheap house insurance)
Join Date: Aug 2000
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beep,
As I said you really are not interested in any of the facts.
How can you know if strikes were threatened unless you were part of the negotiations-and I doubt any of us on this forum was. Certainly no threats were made as far as I've heard and anyway on what grounds-there has to be a reason. ATCOs didn't walk out over PPP so the chances of ever getting them out over the odd 2% is neligible. No one from Prospect ever suggested this as a possibility.
Start being realistic and not emotional about this-subtle difference!!
As I said you really are not interested in any of the facts.
How can you know if strikes were threatened unless you were part of the negotiations-and I doubt any of us on this forum was. Certainly no threats were made as far as I've heard and anyway on what grounds-there has to be a reason. ATCOs didn't walk out over PPP so the chances of ever getting them out over the odd 2% is neligible. No one from Prospect ever suggested this as a possibility.
Start being realistic and not emotional about this-subtle difference!!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: france
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from 250kts :
"...They save in training costs,employment costs and benefit significantly in getting a deal which improves their service delivery to the customer and hence reduces their exposure to any potential fines from the regulator. "
...What types of potential fines ???... Due to what ???... Based on what scale ???... Payable without discussion ???... Paid to who or refund to who ???...
...Give me some explainations...It's hard to understand that from the other side of the Channel !!!
"...They save in training costs,employment costs and benefit significantly in getting a deal which improves their service delivery to the customer and hence reduces their exposure to any potential fines from the regulator. "
...What types of potential fines ???... Due to what ???... Based on what scale ???... Payable without discussion ???... Paid to who or refund to who ???...
...Give me some explainations...It's hard to understand that from the other side of the Channel !!!
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Sanitex, the fines 250kts mentions are in relation to delays to attributable directly to NATS. Over the past couple of months, staff shortages at Heathrow Tower, Swanwick and other units in the U.K. have caused flow restrictions to be placed. Can't remember the exact in's and out's of it, but the crux is if the delays are NATS' fault, they're gonna get fined. BTW, love the aggressive tone to the question. You'll go far.
And Beep, you're talking through your ass. Never once were strikes threatened! The only thing on strike is your brain if you honestly believe otherwise.
And Beep, you're talking through your ass. Never once were strikes threatened! The only thing on strike is your brain if you honestly believe otherwise.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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...OK understood for what are the fines ...but paid to who ... Airlines... customers ... or whoelse ??? How much ??? On what base or code ??? And are ATCOs personaly involved in these fines ??? Still need more explainations please ...
Ohcirrej
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No, ATCO's aren't directly involved with the fines. I'm sure one of my coleagues with a better memory will be able to fill in more.
At lease we got a please that time.
At lease we got a please that time.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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....So paid to who ??? On what scale ??? Who decide the amount of the fine ???
...One more thing Jeri !!.. I can't join the NATS forum as you asked posts above...well I know I'm not at NATS but as part of " World ATCO's federation " Is it too private ...even secret to be one of yours in NATS private forum ???
U can MPme if you want to !!!
...sorry error ...not MPme as french... better said P(rivate )M(essage) me!!!!
...One more thing Jeri !!.. I can't join the NATS forum as you asked posts above...well I know I'm not at NATS but as part of " World ATCO's federation " Is it too private ...even secret to be one of yours in NATS private forum ???
U can MPme if you want to !!!
...sorry error ...not MPme as french... better said P(rivate )M(essage) me!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Jerricho Ummm.....it's a NATS forum.
...Well good answer...Little easy IMHO !!!!
...You can stay in your private cocoon atco world...but I'm still thinking what can interest a NATS atco can interset an other atco around our world !!!... Even in USHUAIA !!!!... Even surely there !!!...
...Well good answer...Little easy IMHO !!!!
...You can stay in your private cocoon atco world...but I'm still thinking what can interest a NATS atco can interset an other atco around our world !!!... Even in USHUAIA !!!!... Even surely there !!!...
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Jerricho - Easy there old chap, there's obviously a language barrier problem here, although his/her English is much better than my French! I think Saintex is genuinely interested in what happens to NATS in terms of fines, and also in the current pay negotiations - as are a lot of us who don't have access to the NATS forum, as a large increase in NATS pay may lead, later rather than sooner probably, to a corresponding, but perhaps not as large, increase in the non-NATS world.
Saintex - The basic, and only, answer to your request to get on the NATS forum is that it is a private forum for NATS staff so that they can discuss more delicate, or mundane, matters in privacy without worrying about who see's it. It's just like the individual airline forums in that respect, and it's not some huge conspiracy against the rest of us
.
Saintex - The basic, and only, answer to your request to get on the NATS forum is that it is a private forum for NATS staff so that they can discuss more delicate, or mundane, matters in privacy without worrying about who see's it. It's just like the individual airline forums in that respect, and it's not some huge conspiracy against the rest of us
.
Join Date: May 2003
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Saintex - as far as I remember, the target for 2003 was to keep the average amount of NATS-attributable delay down to 1.2 minutes per flight, or 72 seconds if you prefer.
A memo went around which stated that the CAA would fine NATS to the tune of £10,000,000 if this target was missed, and that the figure would "increase exponentially" if the delays were significantly higher than 1.2 minutes.
NATS used to be part of the CAA, but now is only regulated by them. One can argue that the regulator threatening to fine NATS for delays is somewhat counter-productive, especially when the CAA's prime responsibility is air safety. But I'm not going into that.
The happy ending is that by offering huge overtime incentives to staff at LACC and other units, NATS met the target set by the CAA, and avoided the fine. Not a happy ending for everyone though - some people are disgruntled that helpful ATCOs will aid the company by coming in for overtime and thus earn more money. The level of greed amongst some ATCOs is simply jaw-dropping.
Who knows where the fine would have gone if we had missed the target? At a guess, some sort of "compensation" to the airlines suffering delays enforced by us.
LTP
A memo went around which stated that the CAA would fine NATS to the tune of £10,000,000 if this target was missed, and that the figure would "increase exponentially" if the delays were significantly higher than 1.2 minutes.
NATS used to be part of the CAA, but now is only regulated by them. One can argue that the regulator threatening to fine NATS for delays is somewhat counter-productive, especially when the CAA's prime responsibility is air safety. But I'm not going into that.
The happy ending is that by offering huge overtime incentives to staff at LACC and other units, NATS met the target set by the CAA, and avoided the fine. Not a happy ending for everyone though - some people are disgruntled that helpful ATCOs will aid the company by coming in for overtime and thus earn more money. The level of greed amongst some ATCOs is simply jaw-dropping.
Who knows where the fine would have gone if we had missed the target? At a guess, some sort of "compensation" to the airlines suffering delays enforced by us.
LTP
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Jerricho
Yawn.................
Saintex, run along now. It's obvious you have nothing relevant or intelligent to add here.
...Sorry Jerricho...My post about NATS forum appliance was ended with a smiley...though you can understand a " joky " attitude from my part !!! Never mind I will try to be more intelligent....
To RODAN : thanks for your help, as you say may be a language barrier even if I try to do my best but it's definitely a goal to improve it...Thanks too for your answer : you're right I'm interesting in what's going on at NATS but not only NATS, in SPAIN too, ITALY and FRANCE of course as we are negociating a new 3 years deal ( maybe !!! ) too...So my questions were really without double sens o so on...Natural professional interest only !!!
To LTP : is the new 2004 WP/Pay process will follow with this target of average NATS attributale delay ??...
....PLEASE JERRICHO GIVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH YOU...EVEN MAY BE ON YOUR ISLAND...I'LL DO MY BEST !!! WITH GOOD WINES FROM ME AND GOOD BEERS FROM YOU
Yawn.................
Saintex, run along now. It's obvious you have nothing relevant or intelligent to add here.
...Sorry Jerricho...My post about NATS forum appliance was ended with a
smiley...though you can understand a " joky " attitude from my part !!! Never mind I will try to be more intelligent.... To RODAN : thanks for your help, as you say may be a language barrier even if I try to do my best but it's definitely a goal to improve it...Thanks too for your answer : you're right I'm interesting in what's going on at NATS but not only NATS, in SPAIN too, ITALY and FRANCE of course as we are negociating a new 3 years deal ( maybe !!! ) too...So my questions were really without double sens o so on...Natural professional interest only !!!
To LTP : is the new 2004 WP/Pay process will follow with this target of average NATS attributale delay ??...
....PLEASE JERRICHO GIVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH YOU...EVEN MAY BE ON YOUR ISLAND...I'LL DO MY BEST !!! WITH GOOD WINES FROM ME AND GOOD BEERS FROM YOU
Join Date: Apr 1999
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One issue that seems to have been lost in this inhouse bickering is the subject of AVAA's. Very nice to the units involved but very devicive to those not included. How much of the 'pot' is being paid in AVAA's that could be added to the annual wage round to * ALL * NATS staff? Prospect, if overtime is required at ANY unit you represent, why the disparity?.I say again, why the disparity?
Join Date: Mar 2001
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23c
I was informed that AVAA's will be available to all units but at a different value depending on where the unit is on the banding, for example a band 1 unit AAVA £350, band 2 £400, band 3 £450 band 4 £500 and so on. I believe that if you wanted to sell leave or DIL it would be at these values and subject to local management discretion up to 6 per year.
This was all subject to approval of the BEC and interestingly nothing came out on the brief...probably will after they move the decimal point on the band 1 band 2 units just to screw them a little more.
Hope this helps
PA7
A 1/4 Cherokee 3/4's animal
I was informed that AVAA's will be available to all units but at a different value depending on where the unit is on the banding, for example a band 1 unit AAVA £350, band 2 £400, band 3 £450 band 4 £500 and so on. I believe that if you wanted to sell leave or DIL it would be at these values and subject to local management discretion up to 6 per year.
This was all subject to approval of the BEC and interestingly nothing came out on the brief...probably will after they move the decimal point on the band 1 band 2 units just to screw them a little more.
Hope this helps
PA7
A 1/4 Cherokee 3/4's animal
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The AAVA's are a start for the regional airports but I can't see unit management buying back DIL or A/L.
I've had to carry over 8 days for each of the last 3 years, do you think the company will buy those days back off of me plus all the DIL I've accrued....... I Think NOT.
Then again, I'll probably be able to retire a couple of years early if it carries on at this rate
I've had to carry over 8 days for each of the last 3 years, do you think the company will buy those days back off of me plus all the DIL I've accrued....... I Think NOT.
Then again, I'll probably be able to retire a couple of years early if it carries on at this rate
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Beep, hold, lost
It's encouraging to finally see a few ATCOs showing a little perspective and humility. Credit to you.
As has been alluded to... the image of an ATCO given by this forum is of the most self-centred, selfish, money-grabbing, moaning and arrogant people ever to develop a god complex. Sorry guys but it's true. Many of you need to take a good look at the world around you. It appears your eyes only move between your screen and your wallet.
Having read the ATCO WP offer, I think it's a terribly devisive way forward and will lead to years of bickering and bitterness between ATCOs around the country... sadly it seems that's what you're best at, so should probably vote yes.
It's encouraging to finally see a few ATCOs showing a little perspective and humility. Credit to you.
As has been alluded to... the image of an ATCO given by this forum is of the most self-centred, selfish, money-grabbing, moaning and arrogant people ever to develop a god complex. Sorry guys but it's true. Many of you need to take a good look at the world around you. It appears your eyes only move between your screen and your wallet.
Having read the ATCO WP offer, I think it's a terribly devisive way forward and will lead to years of bickering and bitterness between ATCOs around the country... sadly it seems that's what you're best at, so should probably vote yes.