Ascot call sign
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Ascot call sign
Does the Ascot call sign confer any kind of priority over us lesser mortals when it comes to service from ATC? Serious question folks- do the ops manuals have anything about it for example?
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Under normal circumstances, they join the queue!!
However, they occasionally, for "operational reasons" declare a higher category of flight (Usually CAT B), then they take priority over everyone else, except CAT A.
If you're thinking about them getting round slot restrictions, then it's usually because after they've departed, they are handed over to the Military Controllers and avoid the civil flow regulations
However, they occasionally, for "operational reasons" declare a higher category of flight (Usually CAT B), then they take priority over everyone else, except CAT A.
If you're thinking about them getting round slot restrictions, then it's usually because after they've departed, they are handed over to the Military Controllers and avoid the civil flow regulations
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Fact is guys I was effectively "dumped" whilst in the open FIR (poor viz etc) for the controller to hold extended converstaions and vectoring with "Ascot***" (also in FIR) and every other call was put on standby. Ascot wanted a handover to Essex (not achievable) so we all had to wait. So much for taking turns. just to put it into perspective it was some 10-12 minutes before controller came back to anyone by which time most had found another LARS to work. Thanks for the responses. It does beg the question - should we ask the reasons?
I'm not aware that the "Ascot" callsign itself confers any ATC priority. I may be mistaken, but I think I can recall 'Ascot' callsigns sometimes being used by training flights, in which case, according to the UK CAA MATS Part 1 (CAP493), they would be well down the pecking order.
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It depends on the categorisation of the flight (as defined in MATS Pt 1). If the said ASCOT callsign had a priority status (which you may well have been unaware of) then it will get priority.
To save you looking at MATS Pt 1, the system is something along the following:
A Aircraft in emergency (e.g. engine fault, fuel shortage, seriously ill
passenger). Aircraft which have declared a 'Police Emergency'.
Ambulance/Medical aircraft when the safety of life is involved.
B Flights operating for search and rescue or other humanitarian
reasons. Post accident flight checks. Other flights, including Open
Skies Flights, authorised by the CAA.
C Royal flights Flights carrying visiting Heads of State
which have been notified by NOTAM/Temporary Supplement.
D Flights notified by the CAA carrying Heads of Government or very senior government ministers.
E Flight check aircraft engaged on, or in transit to, time or weather critical calibration flights. Other flights authorised by the CAA.
Z Training, non-standard and other flights.
I suspect that the aircraft may have fallen into one of the higher categories thus the priority status.
To save you looking at MATS Pt 1, the system is something along the following:
A Aircraft in emergency (e.g. engine fault, fuel shortage, seriously ill
passenger). Aircraft which have declared a 'Police Emergency'.
Ambulance/Medical aircraft when the safety of life is involved.
B Flights operating for search and rescue or other humanitarian
reasons. Post accident flight checks. Other flights, including Open
Skies Flights, authorised by the CAA.
C Royal flights Flights carrying visiting Heads of State
which have been notified by NOTAM/Temporary Supplement.
D Flights notified by the CAA carrying Heads of Government or very senior government ministers.
E Flight check aircraft engaged on, or in transit to, time or weather critical calibration flights. Other flights authorised by the CAA.
Z Training, non-standard and other flights.
I suspect that the aircraft may have fallen into one of the higher categories thus the priority status.
Panthera pardus puella
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sorry toppupper - shouldve been less succinct!!
as others have said - if they are operating as a bog standard flight then within the uk airspace then they get no priority
yaffs
as others have said - if they are operating as a bog standard flight then within the uk airspace then they get no priority
yaffs
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Not sure if it is still true today, but in the dark ages ASCOT= Air Support Command Operational TRAINING. As such this should not afford them higher priority
ex-egll
ex-egll
Or Air Support Command Operational Task is another I've heard.
On the normal run of things, ASCOT gets no priority. However, there may be some operational instances when they do. One of these is when airspace has been reserved for a task such as a fighter deployment led by tankers. If you are on an ALTREV, then it's your airspace.
Also, ASCOT aircraft being military do have the option of circumventing CTOTs by declaring themselves as OAT (operational air traffice) as opposed to GAT (general air traffic).
This of course means they have to use military routes and military airspace control. Particularly useful in France at the height of the summer holiday season.
Other than that, no priority is given.
On the normal run of things, ASCOT gets no priority. However, there may be some operational instances when they do. One of these is when airspace has been reserved for a task such as a fighter deployment led by tankers. If you are on an ALTREV, then it's your airspace.
Also, ASCOT aircraft being military do have the option of circumventing CTOTs by declaring themselves as OAT (operational air traffice) as opposed to GAT (general air traffic).
This of course means they have to use military routes and military airspace control. Particularly useful in France at the height of the summer holiday season.
Other than that, no priority is given.
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just for the record it stood for Air Support Command Operational Transport and was introduced when the RAF trucks decided to buy into world wide normal airline systems such SITA etc (circa 1976) so that RAF aircraft could use normal airline facilities on a contract or ad-hoc basis.
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ASCOT is used for all manners of flight, be it training, positioning, transportation, or more directed flight with higher priority. Any that fly airways system GAT without a higher Catergory of Flight do follow normal slot procedures, and also have to hold just as long as the rest on arrival.
WorkingHard - if you were working a LARS unit, what was your purpose and type of flight? These units (especially the Military ones) give priorities to which tracks (individual aircraft) they will provide a service to. If you were on a jolly VFR, then the positioning IFR Ascot under a RAS joining CAS with Essex Radar will certainly be given priority over you. I don't have a list of their priorities anymore, someone else here might..............
Kittyhawk still exists, although its meaning has changed slightly - just that they don't really want to be seen out at the moment
WorkingHard - if you were working a LARS unit, what was your purpose and type of flight? These units (especially the Military ones) give priorities to which tracks (individual aircraft) they will provide a service to. If you were on a jolly VFR, then the positioning IFR Ascot under a RAS joining CAS with Essex Radar will certainly be given priority over you. I don't have a list of their priorities anymore, someone else here might..............
Kittyhawk still exists, although its meaning has changed slightly - just that they don't really want to be seen out at the moment
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We were VFR but because of weather were using RIS for safety. So was Ascot and they were always o/s controlled aispace. Just wanted to know where we stood. No problems encountered this time fortunately and clearly the open RT is not the place for "discussion" with a controller.
Time merchant
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Topupper
Military aircraft do require a slot if they are flying in civil airspace. They are subject to the normal flow procedures. Bit tricky when the tanker gets a 1 hour delay and the F15s go on time
Obviously they are more likely to be exempted for the usual reasons (head of state, humanitarian etc,) and they always have the option to go OAT.
The biggest problem for them is that they are not allowed to overfly Switzerland or Austria, so rerouteing to avoid problem areas is difficult.
Military aircraft do require a slot if they are flying in civil airspace. They are subject to the normal flow procedures. Bit tricky when the tanker gets a 1 hour delay and the F15s go on time
Obviously they are more likely to be exempted for the usual reasons (head of state, humanitarian etc,) and they always have the option to go OAT.
The biggest problem for them is that they are not allowed to overfly Switzerland or Austria, so rerouteing to avoid problem areas is difficult.
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Working Hard
If you were getting a LARS service from London Military then my understanding is yes they will give priority to certain flights.
They have a list of priorities and if they have to start shedding traffic when they get busy or short of resources they start dropping peole from the bottom categories. Being a military unit they will normally have military as a higher priority than you.
If you were getting a LARS service from London Military then my understanding is yes they will give priority to certain flights.
They have a list of priorities and if they have to start shedding traffic when they get busy or short of resources they start dropping peole from the bottom categories. Being a military unit they will normally have military as a higher priority than you.
More than just an ATCO
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Topupper asked Do the Kitty Hawks still fly
If Big ears or Phil the Greek flap hard enough, yes.
Lon More, The countdown has commenced
If Big ears or Phil the Greek flap hard enough, yes.
Lon More, The countdown has commenced
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London Mil priority list
Further to the post from FINDO:
It is true that London Mil have a priority list and also true that when we get short of resources we start dropping people from the bottom categories. However, the categories relate to the nature of the flight not the type of operator (apart from one exception where civil traffic actually has a higher priority than equivelant military traffic. Not at work now, but the basic priority list is something like: Aircraft in Emergency, Aircraft in MRSA (upper air), Aircraft on special tasks, Aircraft requesting airways crossing service, Aircraft requesting middle air radar service.
On the rare occasions that we do have to drop traffic we will always attempt to hand the traffic to another agency equally placed to continue the service. It is rare indeed that we have to terminate a service with no alternative and in most cases this will be to military aircraft general handling in the FIR.
What happened to Workinghard was unacceptable behavoir regardless of who was providing the service. The mere fact that an aircraft was using an 'Ascot' callsign carries no priority without operating under one of the special categories mentioned by W-B's SATCO. Even so, the special categories are implemented to allow free passage of certain flights, not so that others on the same frequency can be ignored.
It is true that London Mil have a priority list and also true that when we get short of resources we start dropping people from the bottom categories. However, the categories relate to the nature of the flight not the type of operator (apart from one exception where civil traffic actually has a higher priority than equivelant military traffic. Not at work now, but the basic priority list is something like: Aircraft in Emergency, Aircraft in MRSA (upper air), Aircraft on special tasks, Aircraft requesting airways crossing service, Aircraft requesting middle air radar service.
On the rare occasions that we do have to drop traffic we will always attempt to hand the traffic to another agency equally placed to continue the service. It is rare indeed that we have to terminate a service with no alternative and in most cases this will be to military aircraft general handling in the FIR.
What happened to Workinghard was unacceptable behavoir regardless of who was providing the service. The mere fact that an aircraft was using an 'Ascot' callsign carries no priority without operating under one of the special categories mentioned by W-B's SATCO. Even so, the special categories are implemented to allow free passage of certain flights, not so that others on the same frequency can be ignored.
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I am most grateful to all who have taken the time to reply. It is rare to ask a question on this forum and the response does credit to all in ATC civil or military. You may be criticised very occasionally but you sure as hell are appreciated.
