Sequencing & TCAS queries
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Sequencing & TCAS queries
Flying recently into MRU and having commenced descent we were cleared to the IAF to start the approach. We were quicker than an inbound Springbok who was then asked to turn off course, vectors for the sequencing. He refused saying that it was not per ICAO reg's to do that and should remain number one for the approach. I had no problem with that , we were ahead of schedule anyway, and did one turn in the hold prior to our approach.
Same situation into CAI just this week, but this time we were the slower traffic, Kuwait 747 doing .86/330 on the descent was cleared from behind us to number one and we were vectored off course. This time were were time constrained and it was inconvenient. What is the standard procedure in these circumstances and was Springbok correct in asserting it was contrary to regs to leapfrog another aircraft? It seems reasonable to me for sequencing.
On another issue, overflying Saudi, Jeddah control made repeated mentions of traffic conflicts to all by referring to TCAS - (eg you have traffic 20 miles 1 O'clock - you should see him on your TCAS). I was under the impression this was not a tool to be used by ATC for traffic advisories, and personally only refer to visual contacts with other aircraft when asked(ie 'we have him on TCAS' is not an acceptable response, although widely used)
Same situation into CAI just this week, but this time we were the slower traffic, Kuwait 747 doing .86/330 on the descent was cleared from behind us to number one and we were vectored off course. This time were were time constrained and it was inconvenient. What is the standard procedure in these circumstances and was Springbok correct in asserting it was contrary to regs to leapfrog another aircraft? It seems reasonable to me for sequencing.
On another issue, overflying Saudi, Jeddah control made repeated mentions of traffic conflicts to all by referring to TCAS - (eg you have traffic 20 miles 1 O'clock - you should see him on your TCAS). I was under the impression this was not a tool to be used by ATC for traffic advisories, and personally only refer to visual contacts with other aircraft when asked(ie 'we have him on TCAS' is not an acceptable response, although widely used)
Join Date: Sep 2003
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I was under the impression this was not a tool to be used by ATC for traffic advisories
As for the springbok fellow, pilots always whine when they are bumped down a noch in the sequence. In the sub arctic the pilot has no say whatsoever sequence wise, unless he have some special circumstances.
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The Springbok pilot was wrong. Totally wrong. Period. If ATC issues an instruction the pilot must always comply. Failure to do so is in breech of ICAO regulations, its as simple as that. The moment a pilot refuses an ATC instruction, or deviates from one, he is solely responsible for the safety of his aircraft. The controllers reasons for giving an instruction are irrelevant, although they may be made part of an enquiry by the pilot if he feels it necessary. But this is after the event. The moment a pilot tries that on my frequency he will know it was the wrong thing to do. Sure he may be unhappy about it, but he does not have the benefit of a radar picture in front of him.
As far as your TCAS question is concerned, you are spot on, it should not be used as a tool by ATC. It has however become common practice by many (myself included) to use the phraseology you describe. Its wrong, but not a safety issue, just another way of pointing out traffic.
As far as your TCAS question is concerned, you are spot on, it should not be used as a tool by ATC. It has however become common practice by many (myself included) to use the phraseology you describe. Its wrong, but not a safety issue, just another way of pointing out traffic.
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Yeh Springbok in the wrong, as has previously been stated, he doesn't have the whole picture and should comply with ATC instructions.
As for the TCAS part, use similar phraseology myself but only providing traffic info to avoid the pilot having to ask when he picks up the traffic on his screen.
FT
As for the TCAS part, use similar phraseology myself but only providing traffic info to avoid the pilot having to ask when he picks up the traffic on his screen.
FT
