Thanks Gloucester App
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Thanks Gloucester App
Thanks for putting up with me for my first SRA yesterday - with a sense of humour as well (perhaps 'gear down and welded' is an old joke to you, but it was a new one to me). Very useful experience and particularly pleasing to find that as long as I paid a landing fee, I could have one IAP free of charge. Altogether a good experience, and now I am much more confident I could do one for real.
Tim
Tim
Thanks very much for your positive feedback! Its good to know we're appreciated!
It was my 3rd SRA of the day so I had just about 'warmed up'!!!!
We can also do 1/2 mile SRA's which are a bit more entertaining should you ever wish to come back and try one of those!!!
(and if you uplift 40 ltrs of fuel you get a 1/2 price landing fee!)
Best Regards, 360.
It was my 3rd SRA of the day so I had just about 'warmed up'!!!!
We can also do 1/2 mile SRA's which are a bit more entertaining should you ever wish to come back and try one of those!!!
(and if you uplift 40 ltrs of fuel you get a 1/2 price landing fee!)
Best Regards, 360.
He's been back for about 2 weeks now......keep up! He'll no doubt be valid in about another 2 weeks! How long will he stay this time.......................!!!!!!!!!!!! The coins in the air!
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........thou shalt not pprune whilst on leave!! 
I am a fool to myself............................
(you keeping a job for him or can others be accepted with open arms (and similar pay packets!!??))
I am a fool to myself............................
(you keeping a job for him or can others be accepted with open arms (and similar pay packets!!??))
Last edited by Bright-Ling; 20th Oct 2003 at 15:11.
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Thanks again 360BakTrak - thought I'd find you on here!
matspart 3 - was this aimed at me or him? (perfectly fair in my case...!)
<quote>Blimey...you actually got one on the centreline!!</quote>
Great fun and a very useful experience for training.
PS When you say your piece about 'This will be a SRA terminating at 2nm, procedure minimum is 710ft, check your minima' does that require a response from me, other than just Roger?
PPS Very impressed that you did it all with primary radar only - I could have provided a squawk though...
matspart 3 - was this aimed at me or him? (perfectly fair in my case...!)
<quote>Blimey...you actually got one on the centreline!!</quote>
Great fun and a very useful experience for training.
PS When you say your piece about 'This will be a SRA terminating at 2nm, procedure minimum is 710ft, check your minima' does that require a response from me, other than just Roger?
PPS Very impressed that you did it all with primary radar only - I could have provided a squawk though...
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The phraseology for SRA's is a bit different to other procedures, and a bit different too, specifically at Gloucester.
For 27 Approaches, it's: "This will be a surveillance radar approach, runway 27, terminating at 2nm from the runway threshold. All ranges passed during final approach are measured from the runway threshold... (this is because the origin of our approach line is generated at the runway threshold, rather than the 'touchdown' point, which is 523ft further down the runway)...The approach is based on a 3.5 degree glidepath, check your minima, step down fix and missed approach point."
We also have to tell you that 'Radar contact may be lost as you pass high ground east of the airfield.' As you pass the Cotswold escarpment, 5 miles east, sometimes the processor will remove the fixed radar returns from the high ground (permanent echoes) and the moving targets too, because there's a huge amount of reflection from the hills and not very much from you.
It's a mouthful, but 'roger' will suffice. During the approach, we'll also ask you to check wheels, check QFE/QNH and check minima again (at the range before the lowest OCH)
We normally drop the 'wheel check' for fixed gear aircraft, but obviously some PA28's are retractable
Unfortunately, we don't have secondary radar, so everything we do is primary only. Our displays are capable of displaying SSR data and the coverage from the NATS SSR feed at Clee Hill about 40 miles north is fantastic but they charge huge amounts per annum to send the data down a phone line! You should, however, squawk 7000 with mode C, for the benefit of the adjacent radar units.
We enjoy SRA's too, the half milers are even better. The radar operates in the 3cm waveband, which is normally susceptible to precipitation clutter, but we spent a lot of money on the system last year, replacing the old valve technology with solid state transmitters/receivers, PC based processing and new 22 inch displays. The end result is a much more reliable system, with greatly improved performance, even in precip, enabling us to achieve CAA Approval for radar services within 20nm up to FL80.
Let us know when you're coming next time and we'll give you the guided tour.
360's SRA's generally have a passing acquaintance with the centreline, but he'll be delighted to give you a speechless, no compass, no gyro half-miler next time.
For 27 Approaches, it's: "This will be a surveillance radar approach, runway 27, terminating at 2nm from the runway threshold. All ranges passed during final approach are measured from the runway threshold... (this is because the origin of our approach line is generated at the runway threshold, rather than the 'touchdown' point, which is 523ft further down the runway)...The approach is based on a 3.5 degree glidepath, check your minima, step down fix and missed approach point."
We also have to tell you that 'Radar contact may be lost as you pass high ground east of the airfield.' As you pass the Cotswold escarpment, 5 miles east, sometimes the processor will remove the fixed radar returns from the high ground (permanent echoes) and the moving targets too, because there's a huge amount of reflection from the hills and not very much from you.
It's a mouthful, but 'roger' will suffice. During the approach, we'll also ask you to check wheels, check QFE/QNH and check minima again (at the range before the lowest OCH)
We normally drop the 'wheel check' for fixed gear aircraft, but obviously some PA28's are retractable
Unfortunately, we don't have secondary radar, so everything we do is primary only. Our displays are capable of displaying SSR data and the coverage from the NATS SSR feed at Clee Hill about 40 miles north is fantastic but they charge huge amounts per annum to send the data down a phone line! You should, however, squawk 7000 with mode C, for the benefit of the adjacent radar units.
We enjoy SRA's too, the half milers are even better. The radar operates in the 3cm waveband, which is normally susceptible to precipitation clutter, but we spent a lot of money on the system last year, replacing the old valve technology with solid state transmitters/receivers, PC based processing and new 22 inch displays. The end result is a much more reliable system, with greatly improved performance, even in precip, enabling us to achieve CAA Approval for radar services within 20nm up to FL80.
Let us know when you're coming next time and we'll give you the guided tour.
360's SRA's generally have a passing acquaintance with the centreline, but he'll be delighted to give you a speechless, no compass, no gyro half-miler next time.
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I like SRAs. Don't get to do enough of them.
If the folks at EGBJ like providing them, maybe I'd better nip over for some practice...
If the folks at EGBJ like providing them, maybe I'd better nip over for some practice...
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I have been doing a bit of flying down your way recently too, so would like to add my thanks. Came back in Saturday evening to a very obliging join for 09.
And while we're on SRA's - thanks for the practice in real hazy conditions a couple of months back.
Is a visit to the Twr okay? Never too sure. - I work up the road at that Int'l hairport...........used to fly there too, but plane got sold. And that helps me explain why overhead joins don't come naturally
And while we're on SRA's - thanks for the practice in real hazy conditions a couple of months back.
Is a visit to the Twr okay? Never too sure. - I work up the road at that Int'l hairport...........used to fly there too, but plane got sold. And that helps me explain why overhead joins don't come naturally
Visits are normally no problem, just ring 01452 857700 then extension 229 for the tower, or mail me or matspart3 through pprune.
A bit of notice would be good, a couple of days if you know when you want to come.
Which aircraft do you fly GK430?
360.
A bit of notice would be good, a couple of days if you know when you want to come.
Which aircraft do you fly GK430?
360.
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Thanks matspart3, very helpful. Come to think of it, he did give me the bit about the stepdown fix and MAPt. I was indeed squawking 7000 but it's nice to know that if it all goes pear-shaped, all I need is a radio.
If the radio transmitter failed, how would I go about requesting a speechless SRA? Is that what I'd get if I keyed . . . . (H) on the PTT, assuming that still worked?
Must try to find a quiet time for you and come back for a half-miler - I think 360BakTrak was a bit busy fitting me in with the VFR traffic as it was!
Tim
If the radio transmitter failed, how would I go about requesting a speechless SRA? Is that what I'd get if I keyed . . . . (H) on the PTT, assuming that still worked?
Must try to find a quiet time for you and come back for a half-miler - I think 360BakTrak was a bit busy fitting me in with the VFR traffic as it was!
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Thanks 360. I left something in the plane last Saturday so might pop down over the coming weekend. Be nice to see what kit you have.
Without giving the whole reg away, but sufficient for you to recognise, I have been in the Seneca 'GV, Turbo Arrow 'KP and Arrow 'NI - the former two live in your 6 o'clock in an easterly heading.
Either of you two come from North of the border? One of our guys sounds just like one of you and I keep asking who his cousin down at 'BJ is
Keep up the good work
P.S. When is GG leaving?
Without giving the whole reg away, but sufficient for you to recognise, I have been in the Seneca 'GV, Turbo Arrow 'KP and Arrow 'NI - the former two live in your 6 o'clock in an easterly heading.
Either of you two come from North of the border? One of our guys sounds just like one of you and I keep asking who his cousin down at 'BJ is
Keep up the good work
P.S. When is GG leaving?
GK430
Neither of us are from 'up north', so you're an airline pilot of the future then?!
I'm off the weekend but matspart3 is on earlies I think, so just give him a call. In case you lose the phone number, its the same as the one you book out on.
GG I believe leaves the end of november to pastures new. Fancy applying?!?!
Best Regards,
360
Neither of us are from 'up north', so you're an airline pilot of the future then?!
I'm off the weekend but matspart3 is on earlies I think, so just give him a call. In case you lose the phone number, its the same as the one you book out on.
GG I believe leaves the end of november to pastures new. Fancy applying?!?!
Best Regards,
360
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So 360, who did you see try a 360 deg backtrack - that must have been a sight to behold!
I guess most who fly down below are headed for CPL/IR's but I am a bit long in the tooth!
Saw the advert and found out where G was off too.........!
Could apply, but won't. Like us, you need a longer runway and at least yours tend to point in the right direction
Have a good weekend
430
I guess most who fly down below are headed for CPL/IR's but I am a bit long in the tooth!
Saw the advert and found out where G was off too.........!
Could apply, but won't. Like us, you need a longer runway and at least yours tend to point in the right direction
Have a good weekend
430
MATS Part 3
Could you advise what type of 3 cm radar you are using, also why you cannot generate distances from touchdown. Is it a question of the siting of the bracketing markers?
Also - suggest you retain the "check wheels", even if you think/know that it's a fixed u/c and you get some inane replies- there is such a thing as checking "brakes off"!!
Regards
2 sheds
Could you advise what type of 3 cm radar you are using, also why you cannot generate distances from touchdown. Is it a question of the siting of the bracketing markers?
Also - suggest you retain the "check wheels", even if you think/know that it's a fixed u/c and you get some inane replies- there is such a thing as checking "brakes off"!!
Regards
2 sheds
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It's now called a MARIS 900. It used to be a Plessey ACR430, but was upgraded last year with new heads and processors. For a 3cm radar, it's very good, even in rain and the presentation on 22in monitors looks almost like a real radar!
Siting of the bracket markers is the problem with the 'touchdown' issue on 27, because the head is so close to the threshold and would be even closer to the touchdown point if we were to move them.
Not sure about 'check brakes off', seems a bit of overkill really. In fact, I don't fully understand why we go through the process of checking all the extra bits on SRA's anyway...the info is all on the published plate, why assume that pilots flying SRA's are more stupid than others?
Siting of the bracket markers is the problem with the 'touchdown' issue on 27, because the head is so close to the threshold and would be even closer to the touchdown point if we were to move them.
Not sure about 'check brakes off', seems a bit of overkill really. In fact, I don't fully understand why we go through the process of checking all the extra bits on SRA's anyway...the info is all on the published plate, why assume that pilots flying SRA's are more stupid than others?
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Maybe the extra bits are there to make sure the pilot is aware they are his responsibility, not yours - rather as LARS controllers now have to add the bit about 'responsible for own terrain separation' to cover their @rs3s?
Tim
Tim