UK Air Routes, a query or two.
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UK Air Routes, a query or two.
UK Air Routes, a query or two.
Hi
Hope you don't mind but it was suggested that I ask this here (instead of there).
Working from home as I do, the recent spell of good weather allowed plenty of sky watch time on a little bit of our crowded skies. My place is on the west side of Derby and the long-haul commercials fly south to north pretty much overhead, about one every two-three minutes, the north-south route is just a bit further west of me. When the conditions are right the sky overhead can look like a BoB film, but with straight trails.
Years ago I understood this "corridor" that runs up over Derby to be one of the main routes out of the UK, called Amber 1. Is this still the case? Is the traffic on this section of the corridor controlled by E. Midlands Airport? And, what sort of altitudes would this traffic be flying at? Can usually resolve aircraft type through medium binocs so I wonder if the level is around 30,000ft.
Be interested to receive any gen on this if someone would be so kind.
But it's not what I came to talk about. Came to talk about another "route", indicated by contrails, that seems to run n/west to s/east just north of Derby. This route is well above the corridor mentioned above with the trails usually only appearing in the mornings between 07:00 to 09:00. The trails are always dead straight and are of single aircraft flying high and fast (if the transit time over my patch of sky is anything to go by). But occasionally you see two, three or even four trails separated by about 30 secs or so. Query. . . is this "upper" route a military corridor? Is that traffic from the states? At the opening of proceedings for the recent party in the sand, this route was well populated every morning. Where, roughly, would this traffic be heading (to/from) and what alt would it be?
Thanks in advance for any gen.
Hi
Hope you don't mind but it was suggested that I ask this here (instead of there).
Working from home as I do, the recent spell of good weather allowed plenty of sky watch time on a little bit of our crowded skies. My place is on the west side of Derby and the long-haul commercials fly south to north pretty much overhead, about one every two-three minutes, the north-south route is just a bit further west of me. When the conditions are right the sky overhead can look like a BoB film, but with straight trails.
Years ago I understood this "corridor" that runs up over Derby to be one of the main routes out of the UK, called Amber 1. Is this still the case? Is the traffic on this section of the corridor controlled by E. Midlands Airport? And, what sort of altitudes would this traffic be flying at? Can usually resolve aircraft type through medium binocs so I wonder if the level is around 30,000ft.
Be interested to receive any gen on this if someone would be so kind.
But it's not what I came to talk about. Came to talk about another "route", indicated by contrails, that seems to run n/west to s/east just north of Derby. This route is well above the corridor mentioned above with the trails usually only appearing in the mornings between 07:00 to 09:00. The trails are always dead straight and are of single aircraft flying high and fast (if the transit time over my patch of sky is anything to go by). But occasionally you see two, three or even four trails separated by about 30 secs or so. Query. . . is this "upper" route a military corridor? Is that traffic from the states? At the opening of proceedings for the recent party in the sand, this route was well populated every morning. Where, roughly, would this traffic be heading (to/from) and what alt would it be?
Thanks in advance for any gen.
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Not really my area of airspace but I think the airway you are referring to is Alpha1, the bit you are looking at (High Level) will be controlled by London (Swanwick), the lower levels below FL270 (I think) will be controlled by Manchester.
The traffic is then handed off to Scottish (Prestwick) around an area known as The Cross (Dean Cross).
The traffic is then handed off to Scottish (Prestwick) around an area known as The Cross (Dean Cross).
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Not my patch either, but from memory, the northbound bit is Bravo 4 from TNT (TRENT VOR, Derby-ish) to POL (Pole Hill VOR, just west of Halifax)
The southbound bit is Alpha 1 (is Alpha 2 in there too?) from MAN (Manchester VOR) to HON (Honiley VOR, near Birmingham)
The "off route" stuff in the early morning is the eastbound transatlantic flow to the continent taking a more direct route as the traffic up there at that time is uni-directional, mostly!
Up to Flight Level 190 is controlled by Manchester on 134.42 or 133.4
Up to FL280 (I think) is Manchester's (Sector29) also, but on 118.77
Above FL280 is talking to London (Sector number and frequency not sure of any more!!!)
The southbound bit is Alpha 1 (is Alpha 2 in there too?) from MAN (Manchester VOR) to HON (Honiley VOR, near Birmingham)
The "off route" stuff in the early morning is the eastbound transatlantic flow to the continent taking a more direct route as the traffic up there at that time is uni-directional, mostly!
Up to Flight Level 190 is controlled by Manchester on 134.42 or 133.4
Up to FL280 (I think) is Manchester's (Sector29) also, but on 118.77
Above FL280 is talking to London (Sector number and frequency not sure of any more!!!)
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Think there is a military radar corridor (the Lichfield Corridor) somewhere in your vicinity - this helps military traffic to cross the predominantly north-south airways. This may account for the crossing traffic you saw.
Give my regards to Derby - my home city!
Regards,
Simtech
Give my regards to Derby - my home city!
Regards,
Simtech
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It does sound rather like the Lichfield Military RVC although I'm not sure about it being "above" the usual airways traffic you see on A2 / B4 which are both northbound airways as the corridor is normally only used at FL110 (Eastbound) and FL160 (Westbound). This corridor runs roughly in an East/West direction right through the LIC NDB.
The aircraft you see on the northbound airways complex could be at almost any level as these are also Upper air routes (so they therefore become UA2 / UB4) above FL245.
Most traffic below FL285 will be working Manchester Control Centre on either 134.425MHz, 133.400MHz (for flights between base and FL195) or 118.775MHz (FL195 - FL285).
Above this lies airspace controlled by LACC at Swanwick. These flights can be heard, if you're of the scanning persuasion, on 129.10MHz or 131.05MHz. These are Sectors 3 and 4 at LACC (I think - eek!)
A1 is predominantly southbound and starts off up in Scotty land, runs slightly to the West of Manchester then continues down over Cheshire, Staffordshire, over Birmingham and to the HONILEY VOR (very very basically). This traffic is controlled as I explained above.
Is the other traffic in the north-west / south-east actually heading northbound or is it southbound?
If it's north-heading it could be traffic on one of the other airways such as UP6 (often used by very high level Oceanic traffic and runs northbound over you the bends westbound over Manchester and out over the Irish Sea) or maybe even R3.
It could of course be coordinated military or oceanic high level traffic that doesn't necessarily have to adhere to a rigid airways structure if it's high enough. I'm not the best person to ask about stuff like that being well and truly a civvy
A few more bits and pieces :
The airways are now no longer referred to as "colours" - they're now simply ALPHA 2, BRAVO 4 etc etc etc.
As someone else has mentioned this is all about to change with all kinds of weird and wonderful new designators coming into being - replacing these old, and wonderfully simple names. For example B4 is to become N601. Nice eh?
These changes are to occur on 27th November 2003. Flight planning should be good fun for a few days thereafter
(For those interested there's a new AIC on the AIS site detailing this Euro-induced chaos. No airway remains untouched sadly) Beeayeate you might also find some stuff of interest to you there. The address is http://www.ais.org.uk
Hope this all helps
The aircraft you see on the northbound airways complex could be at almost any level as these are also Upper air routes (so they therefore become UA2 / UB4) above FL245.
Most traffic below FL285 will be working Manchester Control Centre on either 134.425MHz, 133.400MHz (for flights between base and FL195) or 118.775MHz (FL195 - FL285).
Above this lies airspace controlled by LACC at Swanwick. These flights can be heard, if you're of the scanning persuasion, on 129.10MHz or 131.05MHz. These are Sectors 3 and 4 at LACC (I think - eek!)
A1 is predominantly southbound and starts off up in Scotty land, runs slightly to the West of Manchester then continues down over Cheshire, Staffordshire, over Birmingham and to the HONILEY VOR (very very basically). This traffic is controlled as I explained above.
Is the other traffic in the north-west / south-east actually heading northbound or is it southbound?
If it's north-heading it could be traffic on one of the other airways such as UP6 (often used by very high level Oceanic traffic and runs northbound over you the bends westbound over Manchester and out over the Irish Sea) or maybe even R3.
It could of course be coordinated military or oceanic high level traffic that doesn't necessarily have to adhere to a rigid airways structure if it's high enough. I'm not the best person to ask about stuff like that being well and truly a civvy
A few more bits and pieces :
The airways are now no longer referred to as "colours" - they're now simply ALPHA 2, BRAVO 4 etc etc etc.
As someone else has mentioned this is all about to change with all kinds of weird and wonderful new designators coming into being - replacing these old, and wonderfully simple names. For example B4 is to become N601. Nice eh?
These changes are to occur on 27th November 2003. Flight planning should be good fun for a few days thereafter
(For those interested there's a new AIC on the AIS site detailing this Euro-induced chaos. No airway remains untouched sadly
) Beeayeate you might also find some stuff of interest to you there. The address is http://www.ais.org.ukHope this all helps
Last edited by bagpuss lives; 1st Oct 2003 at 04:35.
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All the airways as they used to be (ie Alpha's, Bravo's, Golf's) are to be renamed at the end of November into Lima's, Papa's, and November's to intergrate with the 'European' way. 
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All the airways as they used to be (ie Alpha's, Bravo's, Golf's) are to be renamed at the end of November into Lima's, Papa's, and November's to intergrate with the 'European' way.
The 'unusual' traffic referred to in the original message sounds to me like eastbound transatlantic traffic, though I would have thought it unlikely to appear between 0700 and 0900. During the night we tend to co-ordinate direct routings and send aircraft that emerge from Shanwick airspace direct to exotic sounding places like Germinhausen (sp?) and LEGNI in Germany or SUGOL and Pampus in the Netherlands. I'm not sure if Shannon do likewise but I suspect the London boys will send them direct as soon as they get them off the Irish.
The only thing is that London like them back on route by 0700 which doesn't quite fit in with Beeayeate's observations. However, the nature of this traffic does - it will fly straight, follows the observed direction, is generally high - typically FL370 and above, fast - typically Mach .83+. Depending on where the oceanic tracs have been, such a route could be busy and it is quite frequently the case that three or four aircraft can accompany each other, at different levels of course
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topupper
Oh, we will keep 'em coming alright. It definitely livens up a night shift sensing the incredulity amongst some of the aircrew when they are sent to LEGNI from whatever 10W reporting point they emrege off the ocean.
LEGNI in particular will fox them as we keep getting told 'That's not on our route, Scottish'. When we tell them that it is an approach fix for Frankfurt, they are delighted
Oh, we will keep 'em coming alright. It definitely livens up a night shift sensing the incredulity amongst some of the aircrew when they are sent to LEGNI from whatever 10W reporting point they emrege off the ocean.
LEGNI in particular will fox them as we keep getting told 'That's not on our route, Scottish'. When we tell them that it is an approach fix for Frankfurt, they are delighted
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Thanks for the many replys and information. I now have a "lay" appreciation of the sky above me here. Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 it is then.
Simtech
I know the mil route you mention, north of Lichfield and south of Burton. See Tornados, Harriers and Jags fairly regularly running that route - medium level as someone said, but occasionally low runs can be seen (and appreciated). You can see stuff when running north or south on the A38, luckily the dual carriageway is pretty straight in that area for a mile or so as it's hard to ignore a couple of FJs passing infront of your windscreen.
niteflite
Many thanks for your comprehensive reply, have saved it for future ref.
Regarding the hi-alt NW-SE traffic. I can now see that this must European traffic coming in from the Atlantic and points west. Can confirm highish volume around the hours mention in my original query, but I just don't "see" that traffic at other times. It must be there, maybe I need better binocs.
Anyway, thanks for all the repsonses.
Simtech
I know the mil route you mention, north of Lichfield and south of Burton. See Tornados, Harriers and Jags fairly regularly running that route - medium level as someone said, but occasionally low runs can be seen (and appreciated). You can see stuff when running north or south on the A38, luckily the dual carriageway is pretty straight in that area for a mile or so as it's hard to ignore a couple of FJs passing infront of your windscreen.
niteflite
Many thanks for your comprehensive reply, have saved it for future ref.
Regarding the hi-alt NW-SE traffic. I can now see that this must European traffic coming in from the Atlantic and points west. Can confirm highish volume around the hours mention in my original query, but I just don't "see" that traffic at other times. It must be there, maybe I need better binocs.
Anyway, thanks for all the repsonses.
