Gatwick Director
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Gatwick Director
I was thinking about requesting a visit sometime soon for a look-see of things from your end..I know a couple of my colleagues at BA-LGW would be keen to do so too...
first Q: are you still at West Drayton or have you been shipped off down to Swanwick yet?
2nd Q: recently I've often started to pre-empt speed reduction back to 220kts when you peel us off downwind on a heading between MID and Holly, just as we come abeam the airfield - either to
(i) broaden our 'window' for a fairly decent CDA, or
(ii) to try and minimise the distance we cover downwind, or
(iii) allow us to increase airspeed to get a better rate of descent should you shorten track miles to go before we get the official 'reduce 220kts' call from you..
Is this sort of thing
(a) helpful?
(b) a pain in the a$£# ?!
(c) a combination of the above?
It often seems that you tailor the track miles to whatever altitude we're at! ie...exactly 3x altitude or thereabouts
..........or delay the descent from FL's through transition alt to 4000' or 3000' till you have us in the optimum position for a CDA to suit the sequencing...
Just trying to get an idea of how you do it...
Obviously it's not good to assume that's the way it happens every single time, but it would be helpful to know, along the lines of the 'sharing mental models' thing...
would be grateful for any feedback, positive or negative!
cheers,
BB
first Q: are you still at West Drayton or have you been shipped off down to Swanwick yet?
2nd Q: recently I've often started to pre-empt speed reduction back to 220kts when you peel us off downwind on a heading between MID and Holly, just as we come abeam the airfield - either to
(i) broaden our 'window' for a fairly decent CDA, or
(ii) to try and minimise the distance we cover downwind, or
(iii) allow us to increase airspeed to get a better rate of descent should you shorten track miles to go before we get the official 'reduce 220kts' call from you..
Is this sort of thing
(a) helpful?
(b) a pain in the a$£# ?!
(c) a combination of the above?
It often seems that you tailor the track miles to whatever altitude we're at! ie...exactly 3x altitude or thereabouts
..........or delay the descent from FL's through transition alt to 4000' or 3000' till you have us in the optimum position for a CDA to suit the sequencing...Just trying to get an idea of how you do it...
Obviously it's not good to assume that's the way it happens every single time, but it would be helpful to know, along the lines of the 'sharing mental models' thing...
would be grateful for any feedback, positive or negative!
cheers,
BB
Ohcirrej
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Hey BB,
Gatwick Approach are still located at West Drayton (Terminal Control) like the rest of us. We won't get into the jokes about if and when the push south will start.
As for the procedures and the way they think, well, we'll have to wait for a KK guy to read the thread.
Gatwick Approach are still located at West Drayton (Terminal Control) like the rest of us. We won't get into the jokes about if and when the push south will start.
As for the procedures and the way they think, well, we'll have to wait for a KK guy to read the thread.
Ohcirrej
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There are a couple of cross validated LL and KK guys. More common though are KK and SS.
Also there are a few guys and gals that hold TMA and Approach ratings.
And then there are some of us who are just lazy.....eh P7. Don't start on the pay thing.............your £15k is on the way, I'm sure.
Also there are a few guys and gals that hold TMA and Approach ratings.
And then there are some of us who are just lazy.....eh P7. Don't start on the pay thing.............your £15k is on the way, I'm sure.
Jerricho,
Thanks for your reply. The few Controllers at WD that hold TMA and Approach ratings, are any of them currently validated on both Area and Approach? I believe that this was quite common at Manchester in years gone by, but rare now.
(BB - sorry - I'm not trying to hijack your thread!)
Thanks for your reply. The few Controllers at WD that hold TMA and Approach ratings, are any of them currently validated on both Area and Approach? I believe that this was quite common at Manchester in years gone by, but rare now.
(BB - sorry - I'm not trying to hijack your thread!)
Ohcirrej
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SS, no probs.
A number of guys and gals that hold TMA and Approach ratings are still validated on both, and (?) enjoy seing both sides of the coin (we all know about the old Approach vs Area/TMA argument). There aren't many, probably and average of 1 or 2 per watch.
There have been one or two recently that have dropped one of their validations, but of course this is entirely their choice........we know they are just being as lazy as the rest of us with single validations!
But perhaps there will be increasing pressure from the powers above for more people to hold more validations. We will see.
(Sorry as well BB.................still waiting for a KK guy or gal to join us! Be nice now P7.)
A number of guys and gals that hold TMA and Approach ratings are still validated on both, and (?) enjoy seing both sides of the coin (we all know about the old Approach vs Area/TMA argument). There aren't many, probably and average of 1 or 2 per watch.
There have been one or two recently that have dropped one of their validations, but of course this is entirely their choice........we know they are just being as lazy as the rest of us with single validations!
But perhaps there will be increasing pressure from the powers above for more people to hold more validations. We will see.
(Sorry as well BB.................still waiting for a KK guy or gal to join us! Be nice now P7.)
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I think there is a lady at CC who appears on both tower and approach and of course ground and delivery (may also be area, but I tend not to hear that as often).
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All (except those still under training) Tower and Approach people at MAN do both. There are only a few who still do Area and either Tower or Approach.
There are too many Area sectors to permit the old "all seats" validations and even Area is split now to East and West side.
There are too many Area sectors to permit the old "all seats" validations and even Area is split now to East and West side.
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I "do" Heathrow and Gatwick approach, he said putting down his trumpet 
P7, nice to see the Heathrow ego is still alive and flourishing
Bumblebee, if you're given no particular speed restriction downwind then feel free to do whatever you want to do speed wise at the time.
As for descent, rather than me try and type it out here, drop me a PM and you can arrange to come in on a shift to watch sometime if that suits. You'll likely get a much better idea that way.
WF.
P7, nice to see the Heathrow ego is still alive and flourishing
Bumblebee, if you're given no particular speed restriction downwind then feel free to do whatever you want to do speed wise at the time.
As for descent, rather than me try and type it out here, drop me a PM and you can arrange to come in on a shift to watch sometime if that suits. You'll likely get a much better idea that way.
WF.
