noise abatement at CHICAGO

[wingtip777]

Hi guys!
Could you tell me whether there is a specific noise abatement procedure for Chicago international airport? I just can¡¯t find it on the airway manual, but one friend said that once the ATC did ask them to obey noise abatement procedure at that airport. So could anyone explain to me please?

[MarkD]

the answer to noise in Chicago seems to be to bulldoze the runway (Meigs ref.)

[av8boy]

Except for the fact that "noise" was an (p*ss poor) excuse in this case...

:mad:

Dave

[747FOCAL]

The airport website should have that posted. :ok:

[FlyaGuppy]

I fly out of MDW, but we have ORD charts. I know of no noise abatement procedure. Might have been an ATC joke to avoid colliding with the ground or another airplane, since they do that sometimes here in Chicago.

[wingtip777]

FlyaGuppy, thank you for your serious answer!

[Ignition Override]

Wingtip777: Greetings from "steam-gauge" land.

We went through O'Hare about three times recently. The SID, which is basically runway heading for vectors on course and expect clearance to 5,000', states something about your initial heading. My description here is not necessarily accurate, but the O'Hare Nine etc seems to go like this: if the initial (runway?) heading or course is to be between 330 and 060 degrees, you must climb to at least 4,000' by 8 DME. Certain initial headings require a min. of 3,000' by 5 DME if I remember correctly, or maybe both of these altitude/DME combinations. This is stated in small print at the top of the O'Hare Nine or Eight....

During the years when I was FO through there, few captains ever mentioned any of this. We took off once with reduced flaps (5) and a few knots tailwind from rwy 22L. The departure controller warned us to watch out for the SID restrictions and luckily only "slapped our wrists", having implied that we had not made the required altitude. Our last departure from there, about a week ago, was on runway 32L from T-10 intersection, about 8800' length available. As non-flying pilot I kept ORD (VOR) DME [freq: 113.9] on my side and the 4,000' was barely made in a fairly heavy plane by 8 DME or so. Believe there was no headwind on that takeoff. If in doubt, unfamiliar or heavy, hot, no headwind or lousy airframe/engine combination, using engine/airfoil anti-ice... or just fatigued and had no time to fetch a bitter Starbucks coffee etc, just tell tower "we can not guarantee that we can meet the climb requirements", or such. Of course, these days, part of any long radio transmission at a major US airport will probably be totally blocked! Maybe we should all forget the "quiet EPR" climb out from Vzf (minimum clean) speed thru 3,000' agl and go straight from takeoff power to climb EPR at Vzf?

DTW (Detroit) also has such a restriction on the Palace Two, and few guys ever mention it. The fact that we don't ever use "quiet EPR" at DTW seems to help everyone make such a restriction.:)

[Notso Fantastic]

Wingtip- for all turbojet/fan aircraft, company specific procedures override whatever individual runway noise procedures are published (they will have been previously inspected and approved by the FAA). Thus company performance manuals should publish what you need to know. Following the SID is usually enough! For 'heavy' jet operations, the <250kts below 10,000'> limitation does not apply- we fly the comfortable 'minimum' speed below 10,000' in the US- on a 747-400 it's somewhere around 280 kts.

[747FOCAL]

Notso Fantastic,

I believe the 250 kt limit below 10,000 ft does not apply to the 747 is the USA. Most probably because the earlier models will never get above 10,000 ft unless they do exceed 250 kts. .......:ok:

The only reason an A340 can climb is because the earth is round........:E

[wingtip777]

Thanks ! Ignition Override and Notso Fantastic

Ignition Override: do you know whether that restriction on the SID is for noise abatement? Or if there is a general noise abatement procedure in US when not specified on the manual?

Notso Fantastic: did never a controller ask you to follow the speed restriction? is there anywhere a regulation says that the 250/10,000 doesn¡¯t apply to 747?

[Notso Fantastic]

There seems to be a tacit understanding of 250/10,000' not applying to all long range jets. The controllers understand it can't be done. On the incredibly rare occasions we have been asked to keep speed back, we've replied 'unable 250kts' or delayed flap retraction. There has never been any querying. They know your requirements speedwise.
Height restrictions can be for noise abatement or traffic patterns nearby- it is irrelevant why to us. Whatever the reason, it is down to you to not infringe them or give adequate warning you are unable to make them. Unless you are right up to max weight with unfavourable winds, there is not likely to be a problem if you delay flap retraction until you are sure you are going to be OK.