Heathrow noise abatement procedures

[winglet21]

Could someone clarify me about how to comply with London-Heathrow noise abatement takeoff procedures?
I'm a newcomer to international routes and during my last flight I spent a considerable time trying to interpret what thrust reduction altitude/ (all engine) acceleration altitude would comply with the noise levels required . Sorry for maybe a so basic question

[Windshear]

Winglet if you go to Jeppesen Publications
the noise abatement procedures for each aerodrome runway are published straight after the SID's. [Jepp 10.4] Then read the notes at the bottom it will give you the V2 + 10/20 kts etc. etc. and the ACC. ALT requirements for departure.

[winglet21]

Thank you Windshear. I've been out the last few days.
My question is right about the Jeppesen/ Heathrow "10-4"page. I know that we normally should perform either ICAO noise A or B procedures or any other as "published by the State authority".
..."After takeoff or overshoot operate aircraft so that it is at or above 1000 ft AAL at the point closest to the noise monitoring terminal nearest to the departure track and so that it will not cause, Concorde excepted, more than 97 db(A) by day(0700-2300LT) or 89db(A) by night(2300-0700) at any noise monitoring terminal. For jet aircraft maintain a minimum climb gradient of 243ft per nm(4%) to at least 4000ft to ensure progressively decreasing noise levels at points on the ground under the flight path beyond the monitoring terminal...."
Is this a tipical type "B" procedure with thrust reduction/aircraft acceleration(flaps/slats retraction) at 1000ft or should I reduce thrust at 1000ft(to comply with the noise limits ) and climb with V2 + 10-20 to 4000ft to "ensure progressively decreasing noise levels" ?
ICAO doc. 8168 makes a point when to use either type A or B procedures based on noise close/further from the airport. If I'm correct assuming thrust reduction at 1000 ft, I believe that a heavy jet cannot retract flaps and slats maintaining a rate of climb of 4 x the IAS(4% gradient) and one may also take into account the wind component for the purpose of overflying the NMPs. This is my understanding and I may probably be wrong in one of these assumptions. As the procedure is published much more like a regulation than a "pilot friendly" operational guide, I would like to hear from you, the guys that do it everyday, how do you proceed on your own flights.
I apologize for such a long explanation and thanks again Windshear.

[Windshear]

Winglet 21 are you Chtr or RPT?, anyway RPT Operators will have their NOISE ABATEMENT procedures in their S.O.P's and generally they will run along the lines of 10.4 Jepp reguirements. These of course consider all engines operating [naturally], the only restriction you would have to check is the bypass ratio of your A/C engines. I think its > 3.5.1 to meet Jepp 10.4. It's the crackle factor that upsets the earthlings!
Happy Flying http://pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/smile.gif http://pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Windshear (edited 19 January 1999).]

[winglet21]

Thanks again Windshear. Things have come a little further now. My airline have as SOPs to comply with ICAO B wherever there is not a published procedure.
I was looking for something like the takeoff noise procedures which are published for other airports. I read in Airline Pilot(the US ALPA magazine) that US ALPA and US authorities are pushing to standardize the procedures around the world. Problem seems to be thrust reduction altitude(800ft proposals) and steep lateral turns after takeoff.
We always takeoff at or very close to MTOW from Europe bound home.It's not very seldom that one of our guys get a letter of noise infingement.Company doesn't push hard but this, of course, is an additional concern during preflight/T.O. preparations.
I feel that Heathrow noise abatement procedures(and I don't remember any other published alike) gives room for "interpretation" as you don't necessarily know your aircraft noise level/MTOW restriction.
I remember some 25 years ago the old 707 pilots of my company used to reduce thrust and count elapsed time to comply with Kennedy(New York) noise restiction,when on Rolls Royce engined aircraft and MTOW. This was not an SOP but something developed by the guys themselves and it was not rare that during thrust reduction the stick shaker also actuated .
Well, this seems to be history and not tech talk anyway. Happy flights to you too,Windshear!!

[tired]

My company SOPs on the A340 are thrust reduction at 1500'. The acc alt depends on a/c weight, obviously, but 1500' is the default. We use 3000' to acc. if we are not going to make the noise limits due to a/c weight, high ambient temp or significant turns in the SID. I was under the impression that this was the ICAO procedure - we use it at all our destinations, including Heathrow.
Don't get too intimidated by the wording of the NAP, as you say it's actually a "pilot-unfriendly" regulation, rather than a practical procedure for use in the cockpit. Also, the only time I've rung the bells has been due to lateral displacement on the SID, rather than a mistake in the vertical profile. The 340 FMGS often doesn't seem to be accurate enough to fly the lateral profile to what I consider to be acceptable limits eg if a turn is supposed to start at 5DME it often seems to start 0.2 or 0.3nm later and it seems to be this that rings the bells.
Hope this helps.

[Royan]

1000'climb pwr 4000'accelerate and cleanup

[DOC.400]

Just do it quietly,-I'm under the 27L and R departures to the south, Dover,Seaford, Mayfield etc., only 5.5d from LON.
Thanx!!!