NDB21 Approach in ACE

[HF-Tuner]

Recently I had to fly the NDB approach for Rwy 21 in Lanzarote ACE. With the new procedure they skipped the requirement for daylight to start the approach. During my approach in daylight and broken clouds just above the Min of 2300ft, I turned on rwy-track just as the approach course intersected the extended centerline(about 1200ft in the profil) and thereby passing a hill just 500m to the right, same hight and exactly on the PAPI.

I figured that during the same approach during night I would have wanted to join the centerline a bit earlier to be established early on the quite steep descent. The hill I would then probably run into is not charted.

So I would mandate a ban again for this approach during night. Any comments on that or does your company have a voluntary ban for this approach after SS or is it me, the only chicken?

[PPRuNe Radar]

This may be better placed in Tech Log.

Sounds a bit dodgy to me !!

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[Grandad Flyer]

Haven't landed on 21 for ages, didn't know there was a new procedure. When did it come in? From what I remember of the old procedure, the descent had a "step-down" in it, although it published a nominal glidepath angle. If you started the descent at the descent point and went down on the standard (steep) approach, which also followed the PAPIs then you would come very close that hill. It was fairly easy to miss the fact that you had to step down until past the hill, then continue down (at an even steeper angle) to get back on a decent angle of glidepath (equivalent).
I need to see the plates though.
Have you double checked that there isn't a short level off? Perhaps they missed it off?
When did the new plates come out?

[HF-Tuner]

The procedure is probably only for the time they do maint on the VOR LT. They had a VOR-DME approach before, but this NDB was issued 20.October2000. There is no step down, when on final course you have to leave 3300´for the min of 2300´. The hill comes later, so if you stay visual on the PAPI-path and join the centerline as soon as you reach the min, your path almost hits that hill (at least in my opinion).

[160to4DME]

Rwy 21 at ACE is probably the most memorable appraoch and landing I've ever experienced, either up front or down the back.

Mod turb in cloud on the descent, PF kept it high whilst he was still in cloud (a DAN 727), dirty dive on short final once clear of the high ground, flared well down, then head wind gave way to tail wind, shook the old girl like mad as we "arrived", bins popping open all down the cabin, vacated at the end.

Ahhhhhhhh Dan Air, bless 'em; wouldn't have missed it for the world :)

[Hew Jampton]

Don't change to the runway extended centreline too early and don't bust the minima would be favourite ways to minimize the hazards. When abeam the obstacle, one should be visual with it; even so it will be pretty close.

[Hew Jampton]

Look at the thread:

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/001677.html

Brian Bristow is a big cheese at Aerad, so he should be able to shed some light on the problem.

[Brian Bristow]

I've checked our Aerad charts for 21 at ACE & I sympathise with the problem. The temporary charts issued Nov 2 00, are for the period that LT VOR is u/s. Reading the previous comments I think all has been said already; it's not the easiest approach & has no step down on the temp charts, however you are starting from a greater alt,(3300 v 3000),but it is not wildly different from say Seychelles or the old HKG 13, where in these cases & others, you must not deviate from the procedure or descend early (ie below the nominal 3 deg path, or in this case somewhat steeper; PAPI is at 3.7deg) or you'll hit something hard. The procedure is offset (14deg left) for an excellent reason which has been noted, so if a/c are turned onto the extended R/W C/L too early you'll be in the wrong place. If the procedure could have been made more straight-forward it would have been. Therefore follow the chart (ours or the others) & don't descend below the nominal path, & only line up with the r/w when 100% visual including all hills.The published DA & the circling MDA will keep you above high ground if you follow the procedure. An approach to be very carefully flown. As a result of these comments we are checking our ACE charts to ensure the obstructions / MSA contours are as carefully marked as they should be.

[Wycombe]

I have done both 21 and 03 at ACE as a pax
(in CKT L1011's both times) and both were indeed spectacular.

Some of that lava looks pretty close as you come down the 21 offset. Can see why, I think, they only approach (or did) on 03 at night.

When last there in Sept'99 we sat at the 21 hold for half an hour in G-BBAJ (on one of it's last rev flights, by the way) as about
5 arrivals (all UK charters - it was a Thursday evening) arrived on 03. We then departed on 21 (wind was light/VRB).