Taxi Question

[eng123]

Folks,
Not a pilot but an engineer holding taxi approval that I use quite regularly [at EGSS].When entering an apron during daylight with left,right, [for the sake of argument] and centre taxi lines,if my allocated stand is on the left,should I take that line,or the centre-line?
When asking captains I seem to get different answer's.Some say take the centre-line unless otherwise directed and other's take the line closest to your allocated stand.What is the definitive answer?
I have tried both method's and ATC have never corrected me either way.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.

[055166k]

Suggest you talk to airport authority and ask which lines provide the required separation minima from other aircraft[both parked and in motion] and vehicle routes[both in motion and parked ground equipment]. Bit rusty on airfield knowledge, but a CAP on licencing of aerodromes used to specify the parameters.

[BOAC]

eng - cannot help with EGSS, but I assume it is the same as EGKK? Stands are marked eg 52L/52/52R (NB 'fictional' stands), and the yellow lines (there would be three in this case) line up with each of those. If allocated '52L', it would be the left line etc etc.

Best ring EGSS BAA Ops (D Officer?)- they mark out the stands.

[eng123]

Thanks for the reply's.BOAC,you mis-understood my question.I'm familiar with the stand markings,that's fine,but I was talking about the entry lines into the apron.In the cul-de-sac's at STN there are three centre-line's into the apron.I'm wondering if my allocated stand is on the left hand satellite if I should take the left line or the centre one unless otherwise directed.I should have said that the wing span of the aircraft I taxi is within the limit's for using any of the three lines.Thanks anyway though!
Any EGSS controller's out there? If not I'll have to phone them up.Thanks.

[BOAC]

Sorree eng! This one is definitely for BAA Airport Ops at EGSS

[Departures Beckham]

From experience (of listening to Ground), it seems that you should always take the centre taxy line unless otherwise advised. The East and West lines in the cul-de-sacs all have wingspan restrictions (as does part of Juliet), so play it safe and stay central.

Do check with Airfield Ops or the tower for confirmation. As I said, this is merely my assumption from inside Sat 1.

[FWA NATCA]

Does EGSS have a ramp control, and if they do wouldn't you have to coordinate taxiing within the ramp area with them?

Mike R

[Departures Beckham]

Mike, at EGSS we do have mandatory Ground Control, and it is the Ground Controller who will give all taxy instructions. On the passenger side of the airfield there are four main cul-de-sacs, each containing three taxy lines (e.g. the Alpha cul-de-sac has Alpha East, Alpha and Alpha West).

ENG123 is questioning whether if instructed to taxy into the cul-de-sac for his stand, does he have to take the centre taxy line or can he take the East or West line is he wishes.

I suggest he maintains the centre taxy line as the East and West lines all have wingspan restrictions, Ground will let him know if they want otherwise.

ENG123: Sorry for refering to you as a 'he' if you are indeed a 'she'.

[terrain safe]

Alpha, Bravo and Charlie aprons have 3 centrelines while the Deltas still only have one. If not advised use the centre for taxying in. When pushing back use the nearest unless otherwise advised. Except at night when only the Alpha apron has 3 lit centrelines. Above all ask ATC if in doubt. A 737 700 can use the three centrelines in the Bravos except when it has winglets when it is centreline only.

Confused? You should be!!!:confused: :confused: :ok:

[Departures Beckham]

TERRAIN: I noticed yesterday that holding points HN and HP for 23 had been replaced by holding points R1 and R2, which I later read on a NOTAM as being in place since the 15th.

Can you confirm whether the change is to allow greater utilisation of the runway (e.g. aircraft can hold closer to the RWY in good visability), or are they to reduce runway infringements?

[terrain safe]

they have been replaced by R for HN and S for HP with new cat1 holding points as well as the old cat3. This is give a faster line up as you can fit a B737 into the space ahead of the cat3 point. However R1 is in quite a dip and taxying out requires a lot of power but then if the A/C keep moving it is a quick departure, as shown yesterday when the twr guys were getting a/c away in 4 mile gaps.:eek: :cool:

[Yellow Monster]

ENG123

ATC expect the pilot, or engineer, to take the line nearest to the stand allocated when taxying in to the apron. UNLESS:-

it is night, in which case take the lit line nearest your stand

ATC tell you which line to take

you are in an aircraft which is width restricted in which case take the nearest line/lit line applicable to your type

As already said, the person in charge of the aircraft is ultimately responsible for not taking the aircraft into an area for which it is too big/wide/heavy. So, if ATC tell you to use a line which you know is incorrect for your aircraft type tell them. They will be relieved you saved them from further embarrassment!

As a general rule ATC will specify a particular line into an apron, especially if they are about to push an aircraft onto the other one!

I am somewhat concerned that this aspect of ground movement was not covered in your initial training. Also, that there seems to be confusion among pilots as to which line should be taken if none is specified. Perhaps we need an AIP entry to clarify?

[Spitoon]

Yellow Monster, there is already an AIP entry - but it doesn't say quite the same as you have.

Here's the AIP entry (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/302SS01.PDF) (I think you have to log in to the site first to view it).

Wingspan limits for the various stands are in para 1 of AD 2.9 (although there's a bit more of relevance in para 5). Then go to AD 2.20 para 2 b) - of particular note is the statement that pilots should use the taxilane as directed by the Ground Movement controller.

So, we have an engineer who is unsure whether it's OK to use any particular route, ATC who don't issue instructions that the AIP says they will (and seem to think that you'll know what to do anyway) and repeated disclaimers that it is the pilot's responsibility not to take an aircraft anywhere there isn't room!

An amendment to the AIP may help but it sounds a bit of a mess!

I must stress that I mean no disrespect to eng123 who has, at least, asked when in doubt, but it is surprising that with so many width restrictions that training doesn't cover this kind of important topic....

[eng123]

Thanks for your reply's. I must say that the aircraft I'm taxying is within the width restrictions for the aprons,on any line,so that is not an issue.

I will obviously take the line that I'm instructed to do in the event that ATC specify one but my question was which line to take in the not uncommon scenario that I'm cleared to stand [for the sake of argument] 53L via taxiway Juliet [from compass base].
Do I enter on the left line or centreline? Or does it not matter? As I have said,I've tried both before and have never been corrected.

I must say that the training I received was,I thought,excellent.Simulator as well as runway crossings with various captains but each captain had a different answer to my question. It seems you guys do too!

Maybe I'll get a definitive answer one day!

Thanks again though.

[terrain safe]

The reason you have not been pulled up is that ATC can't tell which centreline you are on in the charlie and delta apron!:D :D

If in doubt ask, you might be told before entering now as it is getting busier and space in the aprons can be at a premium.