"Glorified bus drivers"

[timmcat]

Once heard a commercial pilot air his feelings that he and many colleagues felt that they were no more than glorified bus / train drivers, but differed in that they regularly did not get home at night.

Does this (IMHO negative) viewpoint pervade the circles of the professional commercial pilot? Is it more prevalant now with the short haul, fast turnaround environment of the low cost carriers..or is it a feeling generally held by a cynical older few who have found that the pride and responsibility aspects jade over time.

Tim

[Hand Solo]

I rather think it's the view of a jaded minority of industry insiders, be they pilots, cabin crew or otherwise. Most people I talk to outside the industry seem to think it's fascinating, especially if they're afraid of flying!

[redsnail]

One of Australia's Prime Ministers (and I use that term very loosely) called the striking pilots in 1989 "glorified bus drivers".
:*

[Gonzo]

I'd rather be a 'glorified parking attendant' than a parking attendant!

:p

[turnoffthepapis]

When I see a large red object in the sky, sporting wings and a cockney yabber calling " All Fares Please!!". Then I may start to belive it, but then Im not a pilot.....................Yet!!:sad:

[Dogma]

Having fun, great career. Enjoying :ok:

[Miserlou]

You can call us what you like, just don't take our money or criticize our landings!!!

Taken out of context it does sound like a criticism of the job but on the other hand, and if you got to question him closer, what glorious busses to drive.

[PlaneTruth]

I prefer the term, "High Speed Heavy Equipment Operator." ;)

PT:ok:

[slingsby]

My wife described my job as the best paid part time tour guide of all time. Can't understand what she could mean by that.

1/Best paid, questionable?
2/Part time, nearly right, I do read the papers to ensure inflight entertainment is suitable.
3/Tour Guide, probably, always asked about destinations, whats there, where and when to go etc etc :D what time etc

[Knave]

Ex Australian PM? That wouldnt be a certain Silver Bodgie who did a few hours in a chipmunk at university and thereafter held forth as an expert on all things to do with aviation?
You get jaded in any job. I get paid less than I earned working night shift in factories, theres no prestige, every customs officer thinks Im smuggling dairy goods, the stewardesses think Im a pain and the passengers sneer at my PA's. The only reason I still fly is because theres no other job I can see myself doing without hating it. Plus I get to put 'captain' now on my mailbox, my emails, my letterheads, my coffee mug....

[Avman]

......and Flight Attendants are glorified waitresses.....and air traffic controllers are glorified signalmen.......and so on. :zzz: :zzz:

[Genghis the Engineer]

And Engineers are boiler-suited semi-literates capable only of wielding simple tools to fix things to the instructions of a manual. (Then again, many pilots think that too).

G

[icemanalgeria]

It is true, we are loosing our perks.
You have to work for a third world country to get the treatment our forerunners had.

I recently took my partner on a flight with no upgrades offered at check even though I the captain was with her as she checked in.

Business class was only half full too.

Once onboard after no upgrade from the cabin manager I upgraded her into the empty crew rest seat in 1B.

However the cabin crew ignored her even telling her that she only had an economy seat so would only get economy food.

When I went for my inflight rest I noticed that there was 16 in business when only 10 was planned, I checked the passenger list to find 6 had been upgraded and they had been given Business class attention and food.

My next flight will cost the company involed big time when I take more fuel and leave the frieght behind.

[buttline]

.....and the space shuttle and astronauts are just a delivery van and moving men for the space station right? :hmm:

[prim1]

not so sure about the glorified bit

[Anthony Carn]

timmcat's phrase "jade over time" is a good one. It's easy to forget, particularly when you've done the job for a while, the level of skills, knowledge and experience required to do the job well. (NB - to do the job well).

That aside, one really earns one's money when something goes wrong. There are no lay-bys at 35000 ft !

[witchdoctor]

Guess I'm little more than a glorified pizza delivery boy on a moped. Trouble is pizza delivery boy earns more than me with the amount of flying I'm getting just now.:}

[Bus429]

Some of you need to review what you have posted and realise how stupid it all seems.
Pilots are not gods. A bus or train driver has the same duty of care and responsiblity.
Some of those employed as commanders of aircraft (I think the UK ANO does not refer to "captains") insist on their being addressed as "Captain" outside their vocational environment. I may be corrected, but I thought this title only applied to ranks supported by a Queen's Commission. I think Salvation Army officers also have the right to be addressed by rank.

I wonder at the mentality demonstrated in some posts. For example, the forum related to the tragic crash of the Fairy Firefly at the weekend has degenerated into a slanging match.

GET A LIFE!:yuk:

[Miserlou]

My first job, at the age of 13, was delivering newspapers.

Funny how 15 years later, my first flying job was.....delivering newspapers.
I got more tips at Christmas when I was on me bike!!!

[Knave]

On the subject of calling ones self 'captain'. my opinion is that if youve earned it, flaunt it. I know of people who send back paperwork if their full honors title isnt included, such as MBE, KBE etc. The captain tag? I worked in everything from factories to graveyards to cattle stations for years to subsidise aviation studies and training. I flew awful aircraft with awful loads over awful routes for awful pay for awful years, and after twenty years of defying aviation, I finally get to call myself Captain in a real airliner. I paid for it. Its mine. Im wearing it.

[Anthony Carn]

I was once asked to wear my uniform to a relative's wedding. :rolleyes:

I refused, on the basis that it was'nt a "real uniform" (apart from which, I feel stupid enough wearing it for work).

I agree that an airline Captain is'nt a "real Captain". However, the uniform is a handy way to easily identify who answers all the questions, makes all of the decisions and carries the can if anything goes wrong. It's also part of the PR exercise and a tradition from way back....somewhere.

I hate it.

[Knave]

I once wore my uniform in a hotel lobby while waiting to take a bus to the airport. A lady asked me to take her bags to her room. Guess she knew talent when she saw it.

[Bus429]

Knave,

Poor justification. "Mr." is a title, "Captain", in the vocational sense, isn't. Without wishing to denigrate efforts involved in attaining your current job, none of it justifies the use of the "title".

[G.Khan]

Anthony Carn - You do surprise me, for one who normally posts really funny/ witty responses I never thought I would see you say that an airline captain wasn't a real captain(sic) and then continue to say you hated it!

A brother-in-law once suggested that I wasn't a real Captain but the guy who brought a 300,000tonne tanker into Rotterdam was.

I pointed out that his Rotterdam friend would normally use a harbour pilot and probably made one approach to a difficult port in each six weeks on duty, no more than eight times a year. A B744 captain would definitely make at least four approaches each month, some quite difficult and without the help of an Harbour Pilot.

The accolade of captain, (it is a rank, not a title), has to be earned
Bus429 and whilst one is exercising the duties of the rank it is perfectly reasonable to be referred to as 'Captain', obviously it is not a form of address to be taken home or into retirement.

[whiskeyfour]

:ok: :ok: Thanks! I have just read this thread and had a really good chuckle:ok: :ok:

Anthony Carn, may I suggest Colin Bateman's novels to assist you on your quest for perfect cynicism? I use them regularly and find that they really do help:)

Bus429, I would prescribe the entire Fawlty Towers collection for you. Don't look for anything too deep there, but Mr. Cleese (real name Cheese) should be able to get a smile out of you. I hope. BTW I find the expression "GET A LIFE" a bit in my face. But true....

Captain G. Khan is of course quite right. However my wife does insist on screaming 'Captain...Captain!!' This can be embarrasing for me and does tend to wake the neighbours. Last night she used 'Major' and this has got me wondering....

I agree that bus and train drivers have got a lot of responsibility, but I have yet to see a double-decker in the LOREL hold.

[Bus429]

G. Khan

Good point - use the title at work, not on your mailbox.

[whiskeyfour]

...or use it everywhere!!!!:ok:

[Chokdee]

Help, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here !.:O

[Knave]

My first post about having captain on my letterheads etc was a joke. Being called captain of an RPT jobbie is the ultimate aim of any pilot, and when you get there, you get kind of territorial about it. I dont have 'captain' on my coffee mug.. I have a picture of Micky Mouse, to remind me where the industry is headed. Many pilots have lost out in wages, conditions, perks and company clout in recent years, and if we want to change jobs, we have to front up about 20 grand US for a type conversion. The job title is one of the few real things left we can take pride in.
Anyway, Ive a few weeks to go before I can genuinely call myself captain. Thats when I get a t shirt printed saying ' Thats CAPTAIN Knave to the likes of you sonny!'. On the back it'll say 'Im glad you spotted my deliberate error'.

[Pilot Pete]

I have a brass sign saying "CAPTAIN" bought for me from one of those nautical tat shops that seem to be springing up in shopping centres. It has pride of place on the door of the smallest room in the house. I do feel a bit of a fraud as I sit there wallowing in my own self pride and importance, being as I have just a humble "F/O" on my letter heads.........:( !!!!!!!

PP

[Bus429]

How about this? Recently, I've seen a couple of Ops Returns for flights operated by two vocational captains (one operating as a first officer). In both cases, the "F/O" name block had been scored through and the word "Captain" added! :hmm:

Instead of "Captain Bloggs", how about "Bloggs VC" (Vocational Captain)?

[Anthony Carn]

Bus 429 - completing the flight report in that way ensures correct allowances payments, does it not ? Maybe your outfit is different in this respect ; Is it ?

Great cost and rostering efficiency - operating TWO Commanders together. (NB the use of your terminology - Commander). Seems like there's more to worry about in some airlines than what to call the person responsible for a multi-million pound machine carrying lots of live human beings around at close to the speed of sound. Like saving money by flying Commanders with experience alongside cheaper ....err....Co-Commanders (?).

Getting lots of bites, are'nt you, Bus429 ? It's not as if the bait's anything special. Maybe I'm just feeling peckish.


Mmmm ! COMMANDER Carn. Commander Carn. Commander Carn.

Can't decide which I like best.

What do you recommend, Bus429 ? Dare I ask ?


:rolleyes:

[Bus429]

Anthony,

To be fair, I think the flights related to some sort of line training.
With regard to the number of bites, it's a gift. A few years ago I raised a similar post and was subject to considerable vitriol. Some took it in the spirit intended (bring back ykickamoocow) - others didn't.
Previous posts featured gems like: "Why can't pilots add (aircraft hours)?" & "Why are pilots so tight?" :ok:
Jet Blast is perhaps the more appropriate forum for this sort of stuff.

[slingsby]

A bit tetchy Bus429 , now that you've escaped the abode of peace...

[Bus429]

Slingsby,

Not tetchy at all. I've been away from the Abode of Peace (Land of Hidden Treasures) for over a year. Finished with the Holy Land, too. Now in Scandinavia, where the current temperatures are close to those of Brunei - another 5 weeks and winter will be back!

BTW, could you kindly email or send me a private message? I suspect I know who you are - you definitely know my identity!