NOW start date

[tailscrape]

NOW will start flying on 16th or 18th October with 3 aircraft apparently.

Don't know what the routes will be.

[Eff Oh]

Good luck to them, I hope it all works out well.

[jmc-man]

Hardly an earth-shattering, high profile announcement.

Apparently, either the 16th or 18th? Which? Shouldn't be too hard to decide....pick a date for the AOC proving flight and work from there.

And where to? Havn't decided yet? Getting on a bit...Slot conference was in Vancouver a month ago, surely some idea what to sell on the internet must be decided.

Would be nice if someone in NOW could put their money (??) where there mouth is and say "we will be operating our first flight on this date to this destination with this aircraft."

Frank ?? Andy ????? Anyone ????????

[Buster the Bear]

With both Ryanair and easyJet growing thier fleets, If I was in charge of Now, I certainly would be keeping my new routes rather private for Now, certainly until I knew that my airline could actually take to the air on a certain date in the future.

The destination list on their web site will change prior to the launch, for that I am sure!

Keep it Green Now!

I hope that they have a Buster sized seat on the front row of thier first flight?

[Gypsy]

Hi Max,

Last time you posted under your jmc-man tag on this subject I posed a couple of questions which you seem to have failed to answer. To help things along and just establish a bit of cred, perhaps you could answer them now so I've cut and pasted them here for you.

"jmc-man - your handle bears a resemblance to the initials of a certain well known easyjet spin doctor, ..................

So to help us all understand where you are coming from, do you have any relationship with that individual?

If you don't and you do really work for jmc, perhaps you could tell us which people in NOW it is that you have worked with, and also how you know the background behind the 2 easyjet managers resigning (refer to your post on NOW News thread for the relevance of these questions)."

If you can't come up with something convincing, I'll have to assume that you are indeed none other than easyjet supremo Mad Max alias Priscilla the Tooth Fairy up to the old tricks.

NB: Spotted the change in your profile since I first drew the connection - suddenly moved from BWN to Manchester have you?

Anonymous forum Gipsy. Stop.. or we "Lock".

[jmc-man]

Gypsy,

I am not related to Mad Max.

I NOW (pun intended) work for JMC, used to work for Air World.

Met one ex RFM on a course, know the other one socially.

Not terribly interested in Easy Politics....just unsure of the whole NOW concept.

And of course....all of this could be fiction.

Thats the joy of an anonymous forum.

so, while we're at it..whats your connection, Gypsy?

Disagree with my views? Good, thats why PPRuNe is so useful, allows diverse views to be expressed.

Believe what you want eh.

jmc-man

ps I hate Motorbikes with a passion

pps I would NEVER EVER allow myself to appear on that awful AIRLINe program

:)
:ok:

[Gypsy]

I can smell it in the air again Max.

Let me see - Airworld then JMC but in Jan when you created this 'tag' your location was recorded as BWN, but since connections were suggested between yourself and Max/Priscilla your location has changed to Manchester.

You Tooth Fairies do get around

(I think the anon forum is good - can be used for 1, having a little ding dong on any issue or 2, sticking up for your own airline or 3, having a dig at another airline/competitor if you really want to - I've done 1 and 2 above plenty of times. If you're management and you want to do 2 above with a pseudonym then I think thats okay as long as you're being honest; if you're management and want to do 3 above with a pseudonym - well I'm just not so sure about that)

[Priscilla Moonbeam]

And I am a tooth fairy in my own right, not a figment of Max's imagination. Not only that, I am a very important tooth fairy, as you know.

Priscilla Moonbeam
Acting Chief Tooth Fairy:E

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Re the NOW launch date ... interesting if it is "mid-October" as the main man from NOW was interviewed on BBC "Look East" a couple of weeks ago about why they had yet to launch.

Ignoring the reasons for the delay, he said that it would be "no later than three months from now (sic)", which would have made it the end of September.

Buster the Bear - you certainly need a big chair!! I'm not surprised with all the snacks you are getting from the visitors at the moment ... you should run around your cage more!!!:D

[Powerjet1]

Just in time to catch the half term hols!!!!!. I 'll believe it when I see it. From a previous post, booking was due to start w/c 21 July, a little over a week away. The website has not changed since the beginning of June so I'll be very surprised if it happens then, especially as funding is still not complete, hence no contracts. Who knows - March 2004 here we come.

[El Jefe]

What is your problem?
If you have nothing positive to say about Now, try saying nothing at all. Our industry has taken a battering of the past few years, and the last thing it needs is narrow minded individuals like yourself having a pop at them.

To all of you involved with Now.
Good luck and I hope it works. I for one will be looking out for you.

El Jefe

[jmc-man]

El Jefe

Well, my interest in NOW is purely whether they are going to get off the ground or not. And why do I care .....?

Only because I have seen an awful lot of paper airlines over the past few years, and had my fingers burned with one or two... and I would like to see NOW (or anyone else claiming a start-up) being honest with their dealings with the flying community.

For example...has anyone been issued a contract by NOW? Has anyone been given an employment start date by NOW?

So far, we've seen a good website, and a lot of talk...and a postponed start date.

Funding? AOC ? Aircraft? Pilot Contracts? Serious Senior Management Team?

On the other hand...if you look at the start-up in Manchester with 767's, now they are looking more serious. Sound business base (major tour operator behind them), good business model, proven management team. Can you see the difference?

Easyjet are falling apart....Ryanair loads are down..BMI-baby are losing their shirts....why does anyone think there is room for another "low Cost" airline, particularly one with such a flawed business plan.




Note:- the views expressed above are those of the author - feel free to disagree as much as you want :)

Thomas Cook Man:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

jmc-man, a few days with Siberian tigers here would sort you out! Or a few days smoking the plants in the Panda house!

"RYR loads are down" Pardon me, Ryanair have expanded hugely, so recent results show routes that have only been flown for a short period.

"Easy are falling apart." They have just assumed another giant low cost competitor and are re-adjusting themselves to life as a low cost giant.

Man air are using Icelandair planes and not initially going for their own AOC. Hardly a lo-co!

Baby losing its shirt? I thought it was a youngster and still in nappies?

[jmc-man]

Buster,

you're not an endangered species by any chance.

What you've said above are the REASONS why things are the way they are in the Low Cost world at the moment ( and I never suggested Man air was a low cost operator, just a start up with potential).

My point is that the LoCo market is going though a bit of a bad patch, for all the reasons you mentioned, coupled with over capacity and lots of seats chasing fewer bums ( Even Ryanair had to admit recently that they couldn't GIVE their seats away).

Ryanair will recover, Easyjet will recover, eventually bmi-baby might make money ( although I suspect the real situationwill be carefully hidden in the parent account....as will the Jet 2 figures). So why does anyone believe NOW has something to bring to the table?

I hope they get it together,but I also hope they don't hurt a lot of people by getting it wrong, and by not being honest.

Their COO does not have a strong track record to work with.

Thomas Cook Man

....and this newspaper story (http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7445,948207,00.html) reflects my concerns.

It's all about credibility

Thomas Cook Man

[cocolo]

jmc man

your newspaper is date from 2nd may 03.
This is no news that the start is postponed to october.

It takes months to obtain an AOC. You have to write all the manuals and summit them to CAA for approval.
Beside, they are still interviewing for cabin crew
.
Ez and Ryan are receiving 2 aircraft every month to cope with growth. With 2 a/c, Now is a sure success on the present trend.

With all the mergers that occured recently, I think a new airline is welcome and if the marketing is properly done, the public will respond positively.

[Rocket Ron]

It takes months to obtain an AOC

.....needn't take that long - EuroDirect dit it in three months, and I think Astraeus did it even quicker...

[cocolo]

It probably depends how ready your project is.
I dunno about Eurodirect, but Astraeus is run by every experienced pilots. They are very good with flying aircrafts, training, writing procedures etc.
They might not be so good at selling tickets. Just look at their website. It 19th century technology.
They make all their money on training and they are not flying much apart from that.

Personnaly, I d rather be with an airline run by proper managers than pilots.

[Goldstone]

Just been speaking to someone involved with aircraft financing who says that NOW do not have all the financing they need and are unlikely to get it. Their business plan is not sufficiently robust and their fares strategy flawed. Because they will sell all tickets at the same fare, bookings will be slow as long as competing airlines are still selling their cheapest tickets. Only when competitors have sold their cheaper seats will NOW's fares be competetive.

[EGNR]

..."I dunno about Eurodirect, but Astraeus is run by every experienced pilots....They might not be so good at selling tickets.."

cocolo..

Granted, its always nice to have a flashy website regardless of what type of operations you undertake, but I think you miss the point. Eurodirect was a scheduled carrier selling seats direct to the public. Astraeus is a charter airline with no direct seat sales. Surely, therefore, the focus for them must be on running a safe, solid operation (as it must for any air company) and after all, at the end of the day, the Tour Operator customers must be more interested in getting the right price and that their mututal customers (the passengers) are looked after well in-flight.

Perhaps its an indication of the state of the industry that people have forgotten what independent charter carriers are: ie focus upon customer service in-flight rather than getting side-tracked by ticket sales through integrated multi-national leisure groups.

I say good luck to the little guys like AEU, FJE, EAF etc trying their best (and, more or less, succeeding) in a difficult and crowded market.

[Hamrah]

Cocolo,

I think you've missed the business concept of Astraeus. As has been pointed out, we sell an entire aircraft to Tour Operators.

Last year we operated 4 aircraft, this year we running 6.

Last year we achieved the highest daily utilisation of a 737 worldwide at 15+ hours

So we are doing fine, thanks for your concern.

H

[Powerjet1]

One of the proposed routes to be offered by Now was Jersey. Somewhat interesting therefore, that Flybe have decided to extend their daily LTN-JER summer operation throughout the winter, thus creating a year round service. Purely coincidental of course!!!!

[B757RATED]

Goldstone, presumably, your chum in financing is merely giving an opinion?

I am waiting for a contract and would expect to learn fairly quickly if they had shut up shop.

BTW I have no complaint about the lack of information; as a pilot I respect business confidentiality. Information about financing and contracts are not for me to know in any airline; it is just too sensitive.

[jmc-man]

B757RATED,

I must assume that you are currently unemployed, or relatively new to the industry.

Most pilots (in fact most people) would need to see some level of evidence that a new company is actually going to start before quitting their existing jobs.

This evidence can be a contract of employment, (which carries a limited amount of obligation on the part of the new company), confirmation of things like an AOC application, (which should be well under way by now, on the basis that two start dates have already passed) or a basic business plan, which is required to be submitted to the CAA for the purposes of getting an Operating Licence.

It would also be useful to meet the main players and determine if you have confiedence in them getting the operation up and running as planned. You should NOT allow yourself to be fobbed off with the " That information is confidential because it is too sensitive" routine. They must have a business presentation that they are showing to any prospective investor. Ask for a copy.

To give you some idea, the CAA Consumer Protection Group ( who issue the Operating licence - financial fitness) require a new airline to demonstrate that they have enough cash to start up, then run for three months with NO INCOMING REVENUE. They select the three month period based on THEIR view of when the airline is fully started. In the market that NOW is looking to enter, I figure they need to have in the region of £6M available to meet these requirements. Someone should be able to reassure you where they realistically see this money coming from, before asking you to commit to joining.



Thomas Cook Man

[VIKING9]

jmc-man whilst we appreciate your opinions, why not just wait and see what happens and stop running NOW down. That's all you've done since you started posting. Give them a break, better still, give them a chance :mad:

[Gypsy]

Bullsh*t Alert

Shouldn't worry too much about jmc-man as I very strongly suspect that he isn't with JMC/Thomas Cook at all and never has been but is in fact a member of a spin team from another carrier which might see NOW as competition.


Ignore him

[tailscrape]

[Dirty Harry]

JMC-MAN

It seems to me you have a V-LARGE chip on your shoulder about something or someone at Now. You have had a few goes at trying to put the COO down, perhaps you are jealous? For your information I have found him to be an exceptional individual who has achieved a huge amount against all odds. It is my understanding that he founded Now airlines, which doesn’t sound like a person with a poor track record, or lack of ability.
I have decided to join Now, as have two very highly respected fleet managers from EZY, to mention only a few. I find it personally very offensive that your comments suggest that none of us know what we are doing. As someone else has said here correctly, you have tried to cast doubts over Now since the start of the various threads in a very negative way. When did you last start an airline?

Whoever you are I hope we do not end up with you in Now.

[jmc-man]

GYPSY

I really don't give a stuff who you think I am. Can we stick to the topic?

Viking 9

Look, I didn't start the thread. Tailscrape did. I just responded. I'm trying to stay on topic. I am expressing my opinions. I am also reflecting the opinions of a significant part of the aviation community.

If you look at most other threads they consist of someone posting a news story or a rumour, and other people express their views.

Same here. You just don't agree with my views.

Tough.

I might not agree with yours, but Iwouldn't dare ask you to stop, unless what you were saying was factually wrong. In which case I might correct you.

If anyone in NOW wants me to retract anything I have said as being factually wrong, feel free to e-mail me. I've included my address in my profile.


Thomas Cook Man

[Priscilla Moonbeam]

Gypsy

Instead of being paranoid about the identity of jmc-man, why don't you gaze into your crystal ball and let the people know the start date will be? I think you're in a better position than most to talk with some knowledge on the subject.

Yours as ever,
Cills :hmm:

[Gypsy]

Touchy touchy

Hi Max - back again with your skirt on eh? I expect that like most start ups NOW will go firm on its launch date when it is ready.

As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries.

Competition in the employment market is good thing for the profession and only worries those that know that they are unable to manage their own business properly.

[jmc-man]

GYPSY

At last , a sensible posting.

As a professional pilot, I find the birth of a new airline a positive thing as overall growth and expansion within my industry has to be good for us all; more job opportunities and market demand which drives or at least maintains salaries. ( Yes, I know it's a straight copy). I applaud anyone starting a new airline for these reasons.

However, to have credibility, one has to deliver on promises. So lets see delivery. A contract of employment would be a great start.

Let me put on record, the day NOW get their AOC, I will arrange delivery of a Case of Champagne for the guys to celebrate their success, along with a letter of apology for ever doubting them.

In the meantime, I will remain a sceptic, and "encourage" those in the know to come clean about what's happening.

Of course, like everyone else, they can always just ignore me.

Thomas Cook Man

p.s. Dirty Harry, I have started 2 airlines, for what it's worth. And I knew your COO before he got his "Command". :D :D
The fact he "founded" NOW will only be relevant when NOW starts. Up to then , he's in the same league as, say Lord Tebbit and Blue Fox.

[Sqdn Ldr Weather]

So that'll be Champagne all round then?!

Great news, I love a good party - can't wait!

Bottoms up!

Sqn Ldr Wx. ;)

[jmc-man]

It's nice not to feel alone out here .....

Try This (http://www.fool.co.uk/news/comment/2003/c030312c.htm) for another view

Thomas Cook Man

[Sqdn Ldr Weather]

Yes jmc-man, I can see what you mean.

Having read that, I think there's more chance of George Best getting a third liver to play with than this particular company becoming a major player in the LCA industry.

It is a shame really when you consider how much potential this market has got to offer. I reckon we all agree that more airlines starting up is overall a "good" thing for pilots, but they have got to have a REAL gameplan and have proper financial backing to be successful.

Of course we could be completely wrong here - but I don't think so.

Weather. :rolleyes:

[B757RATED]

Gentlemen, the Motley Fool article quoted was published in March and is well past its sell by date.

The point I was making about contracts and finance arrangements is relevant. What airline would offer up these details for inspection out side the commercial department? The information is just too sensitive for wide circulation particularly in these days of bulletin board gossip.

Business confidence is an essential criteria. Should NOW not commence operations I would fully expect (and understand) that they would exude confidence up to the last minute. I have no problem with that. However, this business of continually commenting adversely on a future airlines prospects is intriguing. There is an angle whereby it is beneficial to rubbish a competitors reputation in the hope of, critically, spoiling their finance and credit arrangements. Presumably financiers read Pprune too and continual subjective adverse comment does not, at the very least, help . Certainly the press quote the (seemingly) more informed comment from time to time.

There has been some adverse comment about the COO and his co-pilot background. Personally I have heard very good account of his management ability. I would argue that the skill set of an airline Captain is not that of a business executive. His command experience is irrelevant.

My own take is that NOW projected a very good culture at my interview particularly towards operational and safety matters. For that, at least, I hope things work out.

For my own part, I will go with my gut feeling upon receipt of a contract. As an overview I think that that there is still enough low flying fruit in the low cost sector for another team to go picking.

[Priscilla Moonbeam]

And I'll bring fairy cakes (we're famously known for them) - they go lovely with champagne!


Cills :D

[tailscrape]

As well as being months old, that article is written by an amateur.

MOTLEY FOOL is a two bit website that attracts spiv two pence investors....in fact just the lemmings it speaks of in the article.....

The site tends to have contributions from individuals "talking up their own book"......after all, the author owns shares in BA for heaven's sake!:uhoh: Rumbled....

However, I have today decided to write to NOW and thank them for their interest in me, but that I no longer wish to be considered for a pilot job with them. I just think the industry is improving, I have a steady if undramatic job currently on the 757 and am in no rush to start working hard!

Anyhow, that leaves a space for another FO. Good luck guys, I hope it works for you all.:ok:

[Readback Correct]

They are advertising again for type rated Captains - aviationjobsearch.com (http://www.aviationjobsearch.com)

[Powerjet1]

Heard today that route schedules are unlikely to be finalised until August at the earliest. Bookings therefore, will not start in July as mentioned on their website. October, for the start of flying though, still remains on the cards. We shall see.

[jmc-man]

Another deadline slips

Assuming about two weeks of induction training etc for pilots, and the standard three month notice period...it's getting a bit late for contracts.

Even if issued tomorrow, and the individuals gave their notice, the couldn't start until mid October..

Thomas Cook Man

[tailscrape]

jmc man

That is why I am steering clear. They are not moving in the right direction, and I asked myself the question: " Can I afford to be made redundant, and do I need to go low cost just as things improve in the industry?"

The answers were no, but I still hope they are a success.

[cocolo]

"Tony Camacho, the former commercial director of budget airline buzz has landed a role advising on the launch of Now Airlines

Camacho, who was made redundant four months ago when buzz was acquired by Ryanair, (Marketing, March 20) takes the role of interim chief commercial officer at Now, working with interim chief executive Lars Welinder.

He will help devise a marketing and commercial strategy for Now. Camacho will work with its communications strategists DSJSW on a launch marketing campaign. "

[B757RATED]

Sounds like a good move. What is the source of the news story?

Despite the doubters they are still conducting advertising and conducting SIM assesments.

The people paying for all this know more than Ppruners and presumably don't think they are chucking good money after bad.

[cocolo]

the source is "Marketing", 17 Jul 03

[tailscrape]

Good luck to him then. Good to see someone re employed.

[fmgc]

NOW can not possibly succeed and I doubt if it will ever get an aeroplane in the air.

JMC-MAN, what did you mean about the COO?

[B757RATED]

Further to my previous post this report from Janes is worth considering.

There is a big market for the low cost carriers in Eastern Europe if they can find a way to access it. Read on:


By Anthony O'Connor

It goes without saying that an expanded Europe will need greater communication links and that much of this could be served by increased air transport links. It sounds like the perfect breeding ground for some of Europe's established low-cost carriers to step in and develop these new markets as they have elsewhere in Europe. But are the ready to go east?

Some of them have already taken tentative steps to serve Central and Eastern Europe. Easyjet and the Cologne-based carrier Germanwings already operate services to Czech Republic capital Prague, and the German carrier also flies to the Hungarian capital Budapest.

These two airlines have a lot in common. They operate on a point-to-point basis serving city pairs at primary airports, and they both appear set to continue along those lines. Ryanair is the secondary airport market operator and has been fundamental in opening up some routes that never featured on the leisure market radar before the carrier started flying there.

But the Irish carrier has already decided that it will not venture into the eastern territories when the new EU members join in 2004. "At the moment we have no interest in Eastern Europe - it's very fractious," said Howard Millar, finance director at Ryanair in Dublin. "We think a lot of people will rush into Eastern Europe and lose a lot of money," he said. "Airport prices have got to come down and incomes have got to rise."

UK rival Easyjet has taken a slightly different approach. As part of a pan-European media exercise, the carrier placed tender advertisements in the national media of 10 European countries.

Of the 10 EU accession countries, Easyjet has focused its attentions on the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovenia. But according to a spokeswoman for the airline, Easyjet is open to suggestion from any airports in Europe. "Easyjet is basically a version of British Midland. I'm sure they'll be just looking at primary airports," said Ryanair's Millar.

This kind of beauty parade is nothing new for carriers, especially at a point in the industry cycle where airports are desperate for business. Southwest, the archetype of all low-cost carriers, does exactly the same in the US.

At one stage recently, Southwest was being courted by three airports within a 100-mile radius in the state of Virginia, according to a source close to the airline. Accordingly, the carrier was able to secure the deal that it wanted, he said.

Ryanair may have been expecting a more boisterous welcome from the airports in the region, which are renowned for inflexible pricing policies. Germanwings Deputy Managing Director Andreas Bierwirth also highlighted that airport charges are definitely an issue for his carrier.

Reports coming from Eastern Europe suggest that low-cost carriers are ready to flock in once bilateral barriers, which favour flag carriers at present, are lifted.

A spokesman for Virgin Express in Brussels said the carrier has no plans to operate any services to the region while barriers remain.

[B757RATED]

The latest Flight International has a piece on fixed fares and I quote the following:

'Start-up Now Airlines says it has solved the software issues that delayed its April start and will join Air Wales in abandoning fluctuating fares set by increasingly complex yield management systems'

and

'Meanwhile privately funded UK start-up Now Airlines plans to fly its inaugral service from its London Luton base to Rome Fiumicino in October using three 148 seat Boeing 737-800's. Tickets will go on sale next week for travel to nine European points grouped into six geographic zones. Each zone has a set price, plus "seasonal surcharges".

The interesting bit is that Air Wales has fixed fares. 80% of the tickets are sold within 2 months of departure. This is the period when the fixed fare becomes cheaper than the fares offered by the expensive yield management systems.

At this late stage it is unlikely that Flight would publish a dud story.

Can we assume things are going ahead as planned?

[sparkymarky]

148 seats on a 737-800? That sounds like a fairly luxurious configuration for a LOCO?

[LGS6753]

The original press info referred to 737-300s, so I guess they'll squeeze 148 on those.
They are cheaper to buy/lease than 800s too!

[sparkymarky]

Yeah I thought that would be the case. Figured it was safer to ask though!

[Powerjet1]

Website amended today stating that bookings will now commence ' in a couple of weeks', blaming the delay on time taken in ' finalising operational issues'. Confirmation of final destinations to be served and prices, together with a full timetable will be released shortly. On the jobs front, stated that a full complement of cabin crew have now been recruited for the October launch of flights which are expected to start with a twice daily Rome operation(FCO). Flight deck crews, full complement?.

The saga continues..........

[VIKING9]

Watch this space......:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

My info indicates that indeed Now will launch to Rome in October 2 flights every weekday and one each on a Saturday and a sunday.

[Yarpy]

Just as a spot comparison I checked the prices from London to Edinburgh for Monday 5 August returning on Tuesday 5 August.

I assumed I had to make a lunchtime meeting in Edinburgh but could come back anytime on the Tuesday.

BA LGW Mon 0915/1040 Tue 1435/1605 £55

EZJ LTN Mon 1115/1230 Tue 1320/1435 £145

BMI LHR Mon 0655/0810 Tue 1245/1410 £228

Bit of a surprise but I would fly with BA. Exclusive of last weeks unrest BA have more back up aircraft and would thus give me a better guarantee of making my meeting. and saving £90 over the cheapest competition.

'NOW' the point is that I really get stung by trying to book low cost at the last minute. If I knew that the fare was the same at any time and the service was half decent and reliable I would stick with that airline as a regular customer. The trick would be to make my arrangements early to avoid high fares with late bookings with another airline.

I reckon 'NOW' have a crafty angle on the low cost business.

[Powerjet1]

Yarpy

Tend to agree with you. If you can book 3/4 monthe in advance you are going to get a very attractive price from the LCCs but not everyone can do that so with Now's pricing looking to come somewhere in the middle, they MAY and I think it is a big MAY, just be able to carve out a 'niche market' from which to operate and win over some punters. Long term , only time will tell.

Have just booked a day return LTN-EDI-LTN for 6 Aug @ £159.88. Don't want to travel around the M25 to travel from anywhere else as LTN is ideal for me. For indications purposes only, Now are showing £35 o/w to Man, £70 r/t( I know these figs are not yet confirmed) but lets just say if they did offer an EDI service, which might pitch in at say £45/£50 o/w, £90'£100 r/t right up to deparure, I would most certainly use it, rather than EZY, as many of my flights fall within a booking period of say 4/6 weeks.If I want two weeks in Malaga for my hols, I would probably use EZY as this would have a longer lead-in time for me to get the cheaper fare. However knowing I could probably go to Tenerife on the spur of the moment for say £75 o/w, that has to be attractive.

Could be interesting.

[25minutes]

Just heard the website is being re-launched as WWW.SOMETIME.COM

[VIKING9]

Seems TFS is off the list of destinations for NOW, allegedly...:mad: There is a staff get-together soon to put names to faces etc.....in readiness of the offical launch.:confused:

[Powerjet1]

Not surprised if TFS is off the list. Monarch Scheduled have the route fairly well tied up from LTN. Also BMI have recently announced they will be serving the route from down the road at LHR with the start of the winter schedules.

[Neo]

25 Mins -

You're a bit behind the times matey, it's now www.then.com

[bmibaby.com]

Whilst I know it was just a typo, I believe that flysnowflake operate their fleet of Boeing 737-800s with just 150 seats in them.

Although SAS mainline operate their all-economy services with 179 seats, so why two different configurations for the same operation I dont know?

[Yarpy]

Anyone received a contract yet?

[MaxMet]

But I have been invited to attend an informal meeting in LTN next Friday.

I do hope that things get moving soon as I want to get out of my current job as fast as possible.

I give it until the end of September and then I am calling it a day and pursuing other interests.


maybe just maybe?


Max

[Powerjet1]

It was at the end of July that the company website was last updated, stating that bookings would commence "in a couple of weeks", at which time a full timetable, prices, final destinations etc would be announced. That still hasn't happened and contracts still don't seem to have gone out yet. Whilst I personally, have no potential employ with Now, I do appreciate the frustration that many fellow Pruners must have who have been offered positions and just want to get on with it. Hopefully things will come to fruition quite quickly and no doubt the forthcoming " informal get-together will shed more light to those concerned.

Good luck to you all.

[jmc-man]

Looks like my case of champagne is safe for a while yet then :)

Thomas Cook Man

[tailscrape]

I don't think they will get off the ground now either. Too long in getting sorted.

Glad I turned down the opportunity really, too stressful to sit around worrying about it.

[VIKING9]

:ok: watch this space and all will be revealed :mad:

[TartinTon]

Who cares? Apart from the foolish people who've thrown in with this clearly deluded crowd!!! Their business model is a joke. The "all one price" model is a great theory. The problem is it doesn't work. Airlines used this model when they first started. One price for Y, one for C, one for F. Then they found that they couldn't fill all the seats at one price so they segmented the market by introducing minimum stays, advance purchases, penalties for changing etc etc. Now this airline thinks they can start an operation in October using what they think is an original model but is actually one that was tried by all airlines and failed!!! I really hope that not too many people have sacrificed a career in pursuit of a tried and failed ideal. It all sounds like Debonair but without the charisma of the chairman........

[VIKING9]

TartinTon so presumably you'll eat the hat you wear when it does work ??;) I too have no idea if their plan will work, but full marks to them for at least trying. They might just prove everyone wrong.....:sad:

[Goldstone]

Have to agree with TartinTon. Very unlikely to happen. If it does it will fail. Bad business model. And think about it, how many successful scheduled airline start-ups have there been in the UK in the past ten years.

[Alloy]

Goldstone, try easyjet, Eastern Airways and Air Wales to start with.

[bmibaby.com]

I too have to agree with TartanTom, that the Now idea is not a good one.

Whilst they have a strong network of routes, many that dont have any or serious competition from an existing carrier, they are going with a pricing idea that failed to work with Go and debonair (so they both dropped the idea) and that EasyJet used only for the winter season of their operation before introducing the word "from" to their advertising.

And I'm sure that EasyJet will start to breathe down their necks soon enough! I mean EasyJet have hinted they want to expand in Germany (Dusseldorf), could take the same road as Go and expand their routes from portugal (Lisbon sounds nice!) and Monarch will crush them on the Tenerife route . . .

Nice ideas . . . but unless they change the price policy I give them 12 months!

[VIKING9]

BMIBABY.COM you mention Whilst they have a strong network of routes and yet NOW's route structure has not yet been released to Joe Public. EZY will no doubt breathe down their necks but lets face it, competition is healthy and EZY's reputation for being on time and having not-so-low airfares, isn't doing them any favours at the moment. :ok:

[Mad Max]

Sorry chaps, couldn't help but overhear....

Yesterday's Ontime Performance Stats for the easy fleet as follows.

First Wave = 68 out of 70 a/c away on time (within 15 mins of STD).

Over the day = 80.3% of flights departed on time, (remember we now do over 500 flights per day).

Late flights in excess of 1 hour delay = 1.8%.

Canx sectors = Nil.

+4Hr delays = Nil.

Oh and BTW, the LF was 85%!

Cool figures eh?

Cheers, Max (Keep it real chums please):D :D :D

[Fifty Above]

... so 100 flights were late eh, Max? What about all the other days?

[jmc-man]

Mad McB et al...can we keep this one on topic...please?

We are now 6 weeks from October, and so far we have no AOC application, No identified aircraft, no contracts for pilots and cabin crew, no confirmed timetable, no tickets on sale....

..and Viking 9, can I assume your enthusiasm is driven by the possibility that someone might actually give you that job which has eluded you for so long?

Thomas Cook Man

[VIKING9]

jmc-man not at all, far from it actually. I just know people who ARE employed there already. I'm doing my own thing but wish them well and hope they get off the ground as planned.;)

[A Very Civil Pilot]

The Now website is still saying that they are looking for type rated pilots. I assume that it hasn't been updated, rather that it being a current situation.

Have contracts been signed and returned, or are they still on the hunt for crews?

[fmgc]

We apologise for the delay, which has been caused by the finalising of operational issues.

.........like no such airline exists.

Every month the time for bookings is put back a month. This is a Walter Mitty set up.

NOW......it certainly isn't.

[Buster the Bear]

Route licence application in the name of SunJet airlines, was this week amended to; Now Airlines with the CAA.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/1605.pdf

[jmc-man]

Anyone attend the get together yesterday like to share the good news?

Champagne waiting for dispatch :)

Thomas Cook Man

:D :D :D

[Yarpy]

Yes, Mr jmc-man, and a very good bash it was. However, anything divulged was 'company confidential' and will not be posted here.

It was just a pity that you couldn't be included on the management team where you could lend your expertise to make it even better.

[B757RATED]

The following has been placed on Aviation Job Search today:


B737 CAPTAINS placed on: 26/08/2003
UK
TBC
CAA/ JAR Captains type rated on the B737(300). Longterm contracts starting in November.

Current ATPL. Applicants must have a minimum of 4000hrs TT and 500 hours on type, 350 hrs PIC.

Is this NOW Airlines? Suggests a launch this year.

Other contender might be Jet2. Unlikely to be easyJet; they have a big spread in Flight today looking for Airbus pilots.

[EI-CGO]

jmc-man............

Yes indeed V9 will be doing his own thing..........................

Running from the CSA after a few of his ex-collegues shopped him after reading in these pages that he has been eluding them for 6 years!!!

Whats that ???? What goes around comes around ?????




EI-CGO

[Dirty Harry]

Lots of training going on at GECAT, and Halcyon House growing daily, all seems to be going to plan to me. Lots of EZY resignations to join Now, and many more expected. Cabin crew have had letters with start dates.

[jmc-man]

and contracts..???....anyone???....

I have to say...first flights going to be awfully empty if someone doesn't start selling seats soon...unless of course, first flight delayed a little longer.

Thomas Cook Man

[Sagey]

Spoke to NOW pr people today, basically they don't have a clue when seats are going on sale and when the first flight will be or when it is likely to be. They might just be useless (pritty common for PR companies)

Compare that to AV8Air that are going through AOC now and have provisional dates for the first 767 flight to South Africa and 757 flight a few days later.

I hope NOW is successful but I do feel they have lost some momentum as they had good press earlier and everyone was looking to book flights in July. It will be interesting to see how their model works, it certainly is the fairest form of air transport with no price discrimination!

Time will tell

Sagey

[tailscrape]

jmc man

Can i share your champagne that will not be leaving your possession?:p

NOW are unfortunately not going to be around long, even if they do get in the air at all I think sadly.............:(

[Sagey]

With Now's advertised pricing policy what capacity is roughly break even point? 60%?, 75% or is that far too low!, and is it obtainable.

I assume NOW have funding either from Venture Capitalists or someone very rich ;)

There prices do seem very competitive, however we all love a bargain and we seem to hear more about Joe Bloggs that got on RyanAir, EasyJet for a £1 plus tax more than the poor sod that had to pay top whack!. That can't happen on NOW but if the % to capacity is too high they will either have to raise prices and hope demand doesn't fall too much to make money or change their pricing policy.

Has NOW sorted out aircraft yet, engineering etc?

From an outsider looking in it doesn't look like everything is going to plan but then again I hope I am very wrong there! and it all goes really well.

Sagey

[LTNman]

I think we can assume that NOW haven’t got their funding sorted out otherwise they would be up and running by now. It’s worth remembering that every week money is being paid out in wages etc and so far income is a big fat zero.

This reminds me of LTN based Debonair, an airline that also kept delaying its start date only to start flying already under a mountain of debt that they never recovered from.

[FLYMATE]

O ye of little faith, wait until NOW get going, then all other low cost airlines will follow their success..The pricing plan seems to me very fair and sensible.

[jmc-man]

The pricing plan is a PROVEN failure. Laker, Debonair and even GO for a short while ( 1 month) proved that fixed prices mean you lose LOTS of dosh in this industry.

Or maybe someone in NOW knows better than the likes of, say, Southwest eh?

Thomas Cook Man

[Sagey]

The pricing structure seems competitive and below the average. They advertise Tenerife for £75 each way, well Monarch have flights in Oct for £76 each way from Luton as well. What is the underlying reason why people would choose NOW above Mon or another carrier offering similiar prices.

People search on the Ezy, Ryanair sites because it has been installed into society that they are low cost, now that isn't always the case but I bet it is most peoples first port of call.

NOW has set prices, so people are aware of the prices, surely they are more likely to look around for something cheaper or comparitive and if they can't find it then book with NOW. People IMO will delay booking as there is no incentive to book early to get cheaper deals.

Still interested to know what their capacity figure is to break even.

It certainly has gone quiet, NOW will either be a revolution/ failure or will revert to the traditional low cost model. If funding is a problem and it gets off the ground how long will it be before Ryanair, Easy sniff around to buy it out?.

Sagey

[flightfrenzy]

Let's hope that 'Now' DO get off of the ground and make a success of their ideas. Using the 'supermarket' analogy - Go were Waitrose, easyJet were Tesco and Ryanair were Asda - no one is filling that Waitrose slot anymore. I'd actually question whether easyJet are as classy as Tesco - Low Cost always heads the same way - wouldn't it be nice to see something a bit more classy? Having said all of that, if Ryaniar call pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap and be high performers in Punctuality and getting better at customer service why shouldn't it be that way. Ooh I am confused but wish NOW luck! :ok:

[sparkymarky]

Germania Express use the fixed price model. Prestwick to Tegel launches Monday :ok:

www.gexx.de

[Sagey]

Sparky Mark in addition the Scottish Executive gives them funding to operate the route, surely that spreads the risk for them!

NOW don't have such help

Sagey

[FLYMATE]

Cool, just checked Tegel from PIK,with Germania and its €88, so fixed planning does work...

[Cyrano]

I started to daydream...

So here I am, running a no-frills carrier called – oh, I don’t know, "Simpleprop". My plane has five seats and I operate one flight per day, on which I sell the seats at the following prices: the first one at £20, then one at £40, one at £60, one at £80 and the last one (usually sold the day before to a business traveller who just *has* to be at that meeting) at £100. My average yield obviously depends on my load factor, but let’s say I’m averaging 80% (4 out of 5 seats filled on average each day) so that gives me £200/4 = £50 average yield.

All of a sudden this new carrier called "Then Airlines" comes along. :confused: Their cost structure can’t be an awful lot better than mine (they’re smaller, so don’t have the same economies of scale or negotiating leverage, even if they do have some one-off incentives) so I’ll assume their target yield is about the same as mine. But they have flat fares, so *all* their seats are at £50.

Now, on average Simpleprop has 4 passengers per flight. Maybe with the competition, the advertising etc, this’ll stimulate some new business, so the daily total will go up to 6 passengers split between Simpleprop and Then.

Assuming the passengers all shop around for the cheapest fare, the first two will go to Simpleprop (£20 and £40) and the remaining four will all go to Then (£50) because Simpleprop’s cheapest fare is now £60 and Then undercuts them. Simpleprop revenue: £60, Then revenue: £200. Round One to Then? :ouch:

But at Simpleprop we're not stupid :E , and Then’s fixed fares are a very easy target to aim at (unlike other airlines whose yield is a closely guarded commercial secret because it’s the average of a series of different-sized buckets, and also because the bucket sizes change from month to month and day to day to track demand).

Simpleprop thus unveils a new fare structure: first seat is now £40, second is £42, third is £44, fourth is £46, and fifth is £48. (I exaggerate a bit, but you get the idea).

Round two: along come the six passengers, and this time all but one go to Simpleprop. (The fifth goes to Then, because Simpleprop is full.) Simpleprop’s average yield is down (£44, down 12% compared with before Then came along) but Simpleprop's revenue is £220, well up (and since we're ticketless and don't give out free drinks, our passenger-variable costs are low and thus total revenue is more important than yield). Poor old Then only has one passenger, and £50 of revenue, bouncing round their shiny new plane. :{ Ding-ding. Knockout? ):ugh:

Which leads me to posit Cyrano's First Maxim of Fixed-Fare Competition: if you are a conventional Low-Cost Carrier competing with a fixed-fare new entrant, compressing your yield buckets and pitching them just below the competitor's fixed fare would seem to be a sound strategy, which reduces your average yield but protects your revenue. The only response the new entrant has is to very publicly reduce their fixed fare (embarrassing) or to differentiate their product quality (the Go approach – a worthy goal, but one which *will * add to costs).

True? False?
(Excuse me, I'm off to work on Fermat's Last Theorem now... :) )

[Soddit]

Marvellous,Cyrano.Will you be using the Taniyama - Shimura conjecture as a starting point?:D

[Yarpy]

But, step up to the next big picture and it could look like this:

Simpleprop is in bitter competition with its bigger rival 'Cheap'n'nasty'. It can't afford to lower its profit margins one little dicky bit to compete with Then Airlines. Cheap'n'nasty makes money on a different patch and won't bother to compete against Then Airlines leaving Simpleprop to shed the blood.

Then Airlines knows that Simpleprop dicks its pilots about something rotten and has BIG problems keeping and recruiting more pilots. Then Airlines knows that creating a good culture attracts good people who do a good job and create a good product which people keep buying.

Furthermore Then Airlines wants to get lots of suits flying. Suits don't fly with Cheap'n'nasty because its airports are in the Boon Docks too far away from the office. Furthermore Suits have a problem getting shafted at the last minute by Simleprops yield management sting. They want a fixed ticket price so their accountants can budget for regular travel.

Then Airlines takes a Macro Macro view of things and knows that there is market share for a second generation low cost carrier in Southern Blighty. However, second generation low cost carriers must offer a cool attitude to the customer. Then Airlines angle on this is that you start by creating a cool culture for the pilots with an equally cool set of terms and conditions!

[Buster the Bear]

So when Now go public on their route network are easy likely to compete to the same or similar destinations?

If as stated folk have left easy for Now, could there be a vendetta focused from within easyLand?

[Sagey]

Buster all the airlines are likely to try and blow NOW out of the water on routes they feel they are threatened on. Does anyone think Easy to NOW is a wise career progression at the present of time?

Cool, just checked Tegel from PIK,with Germania and its €88, so fixed planning does work...

Ummm, how does that prove fixed planning works?. If costs are greater than revenue then it is a failure, the key point is getting enough people on board to make profit, that is when you can say it is a success or not. NOW may well make money on some routes, may well lose on other routes! at the end of the day if they can bring in more revenue than their costs then they will be ok, if they can't they are going to struggle.

Sagey

[Beyond]

There is a major problem with Cyrano's model

You assume that all passengers will fly whatever the cost.

What if simpleprops passengers 1 and 2 only fly because the price is below £40?

Many people only fly low cost beacause its cheap, they dont care about the destination - at £20 they will go anyway.

The guys paying the top price will certainly fly anyway as they have to, the the folks in the cheap seats are largely only flying cos its cheap.

Problem with NOW is that they will undercharge the late bookers who would pay more, and are indifferent - and they will overcharge the early bookers, who therefore may choose not to fly at all, as they are the most price sensitive.

Its is simply crazy to fix prices. You are then reliant toally on high load factor to cover costs, and the only stimulation left to you is marketing - which is expensive and crowded.

[FLYMATE]

As Germania Express proves, they have fixed pricing, and are flying and making money, it is just that the concept of fixed pricing is still not engrained in British companies yet, NOW have obviously done their maths otherwise they would'nt gamble on the price structure. They feel confident it will succeed thats why they are going fixed price. I know for sure I would feel happier sitting next to a passenger who had paid the same as me, and lets face it, who on easyJet actually pays the low advertised price we see on their adverts all over the country..

[tailscrape]

Yarpy

When I saw the terms and conditions on offer from NOW, they were terrible. That is why I turned down their kind "offer" of a job. As well as the fact they could not seem to give out contracts.

So, unless things have changed I suggets the terms you mention are just as bad. Anyone comment?

Flymate

How do you know GERMANIA EXPRESS make profit? Just because they are trying the model does not mean it works.....

[FLYMATE]

The fact that Germania Express are flying, have done for some time now proves that fixed pricing works. I have been given my start date and will be signing my contract shortly, I have been patient with them, have met the CEO and others from the office. They all know what the sceptics are saying: "Now or never etc".They are not rushing into operations just to hush up the sceptics. They will be in the air, when all is ready. They are being cautious and are working on things so that they get things right. The worst they could do is rush into operations, then shortly after go bust and make 300 people unemployed. Maybe you can ask me how it all is tailscrape after a few months-then maybe you'll venture out and join this exciting new venture. I understand some people are more cautious to join a new airline than others, but tailscrape, please don't be so negative about NOW. I have met the important people at NOW and am quite hapy with what they are planning.
I remember similar things being said about "this new airline starting up at Luton". "It'll never work". That turned out to be easyJet.

[Gypsy]

Ditto - having some contact with folk at NOW it is indeed all very positive and on course. Don't worry about people like tailscrape.

[jmc-man]

Now thats the sort of debate I've been trying to get going for some time (if you'll pardon the pun).

Fixed pricing doesn't work. The fact the Germania are trying it, doesn't prove it's working.

There are many operators trying to grab a share of the ever over-subscribed market. Ryanair admitted recently that they couldn't give seats away. Easyjet figures have suffered, although they should see some recovery during the summer months. MyTravel Lite and Jet 2 are conveniently working as part of a bigger operation so their "success" or otherwise is impossible to measure in real terms.

The secret of success in the low cost sector is CASH. In it's third year of operation, Go finally made a profit of approx £3M, on revenues of over $150M. It had previously lost onealy £30M over it's first two years....but it was succeeding because it usually had over £40M in cash in the bank in advance bookings, by selling off the "cheap" seats early to keep the cash balances up.

Now will not have that luxury. It will not have the benefits of scale (I recall Barbara stating at an employment conference that
she felt 20 aircraft was close to the figure where economies of scales worked.)

The feeling from the outside is that NOW is struggling to convince any serious investor that it's business plan stands up to scrutiny, particularly the decision to take on the biggest (easy) on it's home turf. It has yet to announce any serious Board Room members, and everything is being delayed because there is no money in the bank to commit to Reservation systems, aircraft , crews or anything else for that matter.

Before you all come back with another series of personal assaults, can I just remind you that these are my considered views....and those of fellow financial and aviation professionals. I don't ask you to agree with them, but if you are going to respond, can we keep it in the context of the thread.

Thomas Cook Man

[Gypsy]

To quote jmc-man: -

--------------------
It has yet to announce any serious Board Room members, and everything is being delayed because there is no money in the bank to commit to Reservation systems, aircraft , crews or anything else for that matter.

Before you all come back with another series of personal assaults, can I just remind you that these are my considered views....and those of fellow financial and aviation professionals. I don't ask you to agree with them, but if you are going to respond, can we keep it in the context of the thread.
------------------------

Well. I would have thought a former Director of Finance at Ernst and Young in charge of finance would have been a fairly serious appointment. The Chairman was founder of LIFFE and reading the rest of his bio on their website not what I'd call a lightweight. If you bother yourself with a brief look at their website, you will see that the CEO also seems to have held some fairly significant positions so I expect he knows a thing or 2 about business.

jmc-man - your considered views are in fact your considered guesswork. Unless NOW have been incredibly lax with their commercial security you cannot know whether or not they have money in the bank. I actually know some pilots offered employment by them and undergoing training (presumeably not being given for free) so you might have to retract some of your considered views.

This all reminds me as a fellow aviation professional of one of the maxims of flight safety which is 'don't assume - check'. I'm sure that we'd all agree wthat we should not deal with rumours and guesswork - work with facts.

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

Well said Gypsy!

Is it possible that Tailscrape could actually be the LPL base Capt. that had one recently but quietly swept it under the orange carpet?

And as for JMC-Man or Thomas Cook Man or which ever alter ego he seems to follow today, your considered opinion may need some reconsidering.

Like many of the other regular readers of this thread, I too have met "The Team" and am looking forward to working with them in the common goal of achieving a profitable airline in the very near future.

Comments on beating Easy at their own game on their turf are unfounded. While the seats will be cheap, NOW is offering something totally foreign to easy/low cost pax and that is customer service. Gone are the days when your fiver will get you a dried up sandwich, that appears to have a filling but on closer inspection is just a ruse, and a warm burnt brown liquid. Here are NOW with cafe style gourmet-wich and a properly brewed coffee. Add to this the fact that NOW are going to the planned destination as opposed to some grass strip in the boon docks and, IMHO, business travellers will be somewhere a little less orange and a little classier. NOW is not a competitor to the likes of easy but filling a gap in the market as yet untapped.

I suspect the business traveller will buy tickets in advance for several zones and the NOW reservation ethos will allow them to use them on any destination they desire within that zone. Flexibility that modern business requires and should expect. They will be delivered refreshed by the aforementioned gourmet grub and on time to an airport near to their desired destination having been served by a flight crew that wants to be there as they are enjoying working for the aforementioned team and who are well rested after a stable and sensible roster pattern (did I hear that a well respected ex go/easy crew controller has jumped the orange ship?).

All that said, it is simple to understand some peoples trepidation, but it should not be at the cost of a company generating much needed jobs in our currently delicate community. In other words, easy management, keep to the reading of the threads and get your heads together on where you are going to find replacements for your next wave of resignations as people start to see the grass is NOW greener elsewhere!
:ok:

[AJ]

NOW is offering something totally foreign to easy/low cost pax and that is customer service. Gone are the days when your fiver will get you a dried up sandwich, that appears to have a filling but on closer inspection is just a ruse, and a warm burnt brown liquid. Here are NOW with cafe style gourmet-wich and a properly brewed coffee. Add to this the fact that NOW are going to the planned destination as opposed to some grass strip in the boon docks and, IMHO, business travellers will be somewhere a little less orange and a little classier.

Fine, but do bear in mind that those airlines that fly to 'some grass strip in the boon docks' and charge a fiver for a 'dried up sandwich' have been INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL to date (especially that airline that flies to 'some grass strip', now one of Europe's most profitable airlines).

You are going to have to convince the public at large (not just the business traveller) that A) it is worth flying NOW, and missing out on really low fares offered by the competition (some of which also fly to centrally-located airports) B) That a 'cafe style gourmet' and 'better customer service' more than compensates for this.

No offence, but personally, I don't yet see the advantages of flying NOW over the competition. The majority of low-cost travellers are angling for cheap fares, not better-tasting coffee - or they would still be flying BA.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Setting aside all financial and regulatory issues and looking at recruitment.

If this appointment is confirmed NOW simply have to use a single line ad for future recruitment:

"Rostering by Nick Watts" followed by a telephone number.

People are very rarely shy about venting their spleen here but you will be very hard pressed indeed to find a single word of criticism in the 8 years we've been running the site regarding Nick.

He's genuinely acknowledged by the pilot groups at both KLM Uk and Go as being the best they've ever known. Had easy ever had the wit or the openess to acknowledge someone from another airline can be not just competent but utterly outstanding in their skills they could have had a vital asset working for them.

However, I suspect easyLand's hubris deflectors are ramped up to maximum 'wattage' over this little problemette.

Regards
Rob

[jmc-man]

Gypsy

I took your advice and looked at the website...

So far you have a chief financial officer with experience, a COO with NO EXPERIENCE , and a couple of "interim" appointments. The only "experienced" person who has joined the team is the Chief Training Captain. The "Chief Pilot" has NO experience. If PPT's line is true about Nick Watts, then you certainly have made a good catch there.

Can I re-iterate what I said earlier. If the finance was in place, you would all have signed contracts. You havn't, so finance is not in place. Letters of Intent for aircraft leases (including deposits) would need to be in place some time ago for an October start. No announcement on that yet. The website states that flying will start in October, but there is no reservation system, and no confirmed routes. The PR company states that it does not know when NOW will start, so they have been told nothing.

Hackneyed Harry

I don't work for easyJet, but believe what you wan't.


The money isn't there.....

The money won't be there without a booking system.....

October is about the worst time of the year to start an airline......

Fixed pricing doesn't work......

So far I have seen or heard nothing to convince me that things are likely to happen soon.....so credibility is non-existent...and it doesn't matter when NOW announce the routes, easy will no doubt do all in their power to protect their patch, just as Ryanair and BMI did to GO in their time.

jmc man

[Hamrah]

Just want to agree with PPT's sentiments regarding Nick Watts.

...oh, and sorry to disappoint, but jmc-man is not an easyjet employee.

H

[Yarpy]

>>If the finance was in place, you would all have signed contracts. You havn't, so finance is not in place<<

Sorry to dissapoint you but I have a signed contract and a start date.

[Goldstone]

aj and jmc-man are right.

As I said in a post at the beginning of this thread, I will be VERY surprised if NOW starts flying. If they do find the money then I think their chances of surviving the winter will be about 10%.

The fixed fare thing will not work. It will result in their seats not selling until their competitors have sold all their cheapest seats. In order to have any chance to survive they will need immediate sales and FLEXIBILITY in their pricing.

And unfortunately, the last thing the UK needs now is another airline.

Won't happen!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Talking of daft tactics the latest bit of orange nonsense is telling the pilots that, if they move to Now they will not, under any circumstances, be welcome back at easyJet.

I haven't heard that. In and of itself that would be illegal. You can have a general policy that ex-staff will not be reconsidered but even that is a minefield for discrimination legislation.

I also doubt they could afford to ignore experienced 737 skippers when they are hiring contract guys to cover the Airbus introduction.

NOW do seem to have recruited some experience, talented personnel. One has to speculate that if they are convinced enough to lay their careers in jeopardy then there must be some merit to NOWs ambitions.

Good luck the them, more airlines competing for more pilots can only do us all good in the long run.

WWW

[FLYMATE]

I am finding it amusing how people are trying to score points over eachother here, with people trying to uncover who speakers are by implying who they work for or who they "might" work for.
I am all for opinions. When an opinion is shared, please at least listen and if you don't agree with it, at least don't go about trying to assassinate their character. Don't blow people's cover, the whole point of these forums is for people to express an opinion without fear of being "dobbed" in to their employer.
Yes there are some egos here, but I am also learning quite a lot about all aspects of an airline trying to start up operations. So let the debate continue, in a relaxed and considerate way.

[Cyrano]

Beyond:

You're quite right - I didn't consider the effect that raising the lowest prices would have on demand. Humble apologies.

If in fact these higher prices have the effect of cancelling out the increase in demand due to advertising, publicity, etc., then Then Airlines is left in an even worse position, since there's no overspill from Simpleprop, who carry all the passengers.


On a more general point: I would like to see Now work, just as I would like to see any new airline work. I applaud their intention of creating something different, both in terms of service and of pricing. I just haven't yet seen an argument that convinces me that fixed pricing works. Yes, Germania Express has been using it for a few months - sorry, but that's not enough evidence for me.

C.

[FLYMATE]

For the people who thought Now Airlines would never get off the ground in the forum, I have my start date with NOW and have accepted.

[dontdoit]

<<For the people who thought Now Airlines would never get off the ground in the forum, I have my start date with NOW and have accepted>>

None of which guarantees it will get off the ground.

[Aviation Trainer too]

Yup Flymate, I still have a starting date for Bluefox and Celtic something from a certain Guvnor handy if you want them ;)

[tailscrape]

I am not an easy employee, never have been. Never will be!

To the chap wondering if I am the LPL captain? No, I am not.........:p

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

tailscrape - Thats very humble to acknowledge that you are not and never will be an easy employee.

Such lack of hubris is startling. ;)

WWW

[tailscrape]

www

Is that Welsh?:p

[FLYMATE]

At least the comments are funny and not insulting. Will this thread actually say anything of substance? At least the mood has lightened to funny comments and not rude throw away remarks.
Looking forward to getting going at Now Airlines. Have met many people at the private party recently, lovely enthusiastic people. Had a little chin wag with the CEO. He seems so nice and a realist. He knows what all the cynics say about Now. He was reassuring to talk to. I am looking forward to working for him at Now.

[thegypsy]

I think a far more apt name for NOW would be WHEN!!

[cocolo]

I have a start date as well because I have the type rating but I d like to know if the guys with no type rating have received a formal date to start the course.

[jmc-man]

Contract?.......anyone?
Reservation system.......any news....anything at all????

[Yarpy]

Yes, a start date, a contract and a course.

Sorry to queer your pitch.

[4Screwaircrew]

I have just returned from a couple of days at the sim, and crews from NOW are in training.

[FLYMATE]

Thank you 4Screwaircrew: Why dont half these people believe it is actually up and running yet? Why is Jmc-man so anti? Is it because he's been rejected at the interview stage with NOW? Why can't he say something new? It's always the same old thing.
I thought this thread was getting back to discussion and not throw away remarks. Well it was until jmc-man returned. Maybe stay away? jmc-man, you have no interest in joining NOW, so why not go and discuss jmc, or Thomas Cook, or Flying Colours, or Airworld, or Caledonian, I wonder if a company with so many different names in the past just jumped at the chance to employ jmc-man with all his different weird identities.

[jmc-man]

FLYMATE,

getting personal again.

The subject of this thread is NOW start date ( first post on July 9th).

And here we are on September 4th, and we still have no start date. My posts are on topic.

Glad to see there are now contracts, which at least means someone is now putting their money where their mouth is.

It would be nice (for the travelling public, as well as everyone else in the industry) to see a START DATE, as in a date where everyone commits to produce an aircraft full of passengers and fly them somewhere.

It would be nice if whoever is signing the cheques for the simulator trainign ( I know it's not on credit), might spend a bob or two to update the website with some useful information, like the names of the board ( apart from the interim board members) , the date when bookings might commence, the places where passengers might like to consider going...you know, all the good stuff that makes an airline WORK!.

If all you have to contribute is personal attacks on me, why not save bandwith and send them by private message.

In the meantime...

[tailscrape]

jmc man

It should in hindsight have been the "NO start date", not " NOW start date" thread.

I apologise for wasting everyone's time.:(

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

I see the lack of whimsical start date projections on the website in a different light. They seem more in tune with the way the guys and gals in Halcyon House seem to operate, openly and honestly. Why give people a date that can't possibly be assured and then update it only to delay it further. The start date cannot be assured for reasons outside of anyone's control such as AOC applications, availability of aircraft, maintenence and crews as well as the financial machine being in place. When these things are fully under control (I understand the AOC is the last one) I am sure a realistic start date will be announced.

From the sounds of it the financial machine is in place, as crews have started training and contracts have been delivered. It was made very clear that until such a time as it was, these things would not be forthcoming, so yet another fact to back up this theory. Being someone with both a start date and contract in hand, I am confident this project will get off the ground (pun intended). I also know I am not the only one to have these things too.

It cannot be denied that there is a chance for this venture to fail and that fixed price ticketing may not work, but surely every venture has to be tried. Fixed pricing is quite obviously not the only ticketing route to follow, so I dare say that should it not work, the fare structure will change.

jmc man - apologies for the accusations but your barage of attacks on the only really exciting proposition to happen to our industry for a while was wearing somewhat thin, especially as you were ignoring the fact that several posts had informed of their contract arrival and start date projection. I am pleased to see your recognition of these facts now. I hope your monicer doesn't change to NOW-man!

Here's to NOW starting operations when anticipated and it providing the working climate that seems will prevail and hopefully start a new trend in the aviation industry. I am going to do my best to ensure that it does and will.

[HackneyedHarry]

Tailscrape (and JMC man),

Why did you bother going for an interview with Now? I presume you and jmc man are old mates from your previous airline? It's hard to understand why you are both so negative about a start up that may well give employment to some of your fellow pilots. Easyjet put back their start date several times as have most new start ups. Give it a rest you're getting boring.

[Dirty Harry]

I too have a contract, and start date. The folks at Now are well ahead of the game they are keeping things close to their chest, but then who wouldn't.

JMC - MAN you are full of mis information and suggest you get your facts sorted before posting such nonsense in a public forum. We all know you have a total dislike for the COO and love to put him down in almost all your posts. Let me tell you he has assembled a flight ops team who are second to none, including him. I also heard rumours about him, but having listened to both sides of the story and seen his management style and witnessed his enormous depth of knowledge of the industry, have to say he is a very professional individual. The rest of the team are very genuine nice people with one goal in mind, to succeed.

Now are going places.

DH

[jmc-man]

HackneyedHarry,

still getting personal....I never applied for NOW, thanks.

The last project that had such a high profile, lots of press, flashy website, high profile directors and advisors was called Blue Fox.

I and some good friends almost got seriously burned on that one.

So I'm just putting my view to warn others not to believe hype, but look for the things which make an airline real.

Interesting that there is a connection between Blue Fox and NOW eh?

Ttree Trimmer

ALl of the things you mentio have to be developing in tandem. Assuming the AOC has been applied for, then there must be a proposed start date. If you have a proposed start date, you need to ensure you have passengers, hence a reservations system, to put in place a reservations system and start taking money, you need the finance in place.

As lots of people mention GO in the context of Now, lets look at them Reservation system opened in February, AOC applied for at same time, First flight fixed for 6th May, so everyone knew the dealines to work towards to get up and running......and the flew on May 6th.

Underlying all this is the financial backing. When NOW have the financial clout they need, I assume these things will start to happen. But every delay pushes them further and further in the worst part of the year to start an airline. They will soon be better off delaying until the Spring, sometime before Easter.

[HackneyedHarry]

JMC-man,
Sorry, the interview thing was directed at Tailscrape as he has said he went for the interview. It's hard not to get personal when you are on the constant attack but I'm interested in what happened to you at Blue Fox. Did you resign from your job to join Blue Fox? Do you think 9/11 had anything to do with Blue Fox's demise as it did with Newlines?

If you give us the full low down, rather than the constant, seemingly baseless snipes, then you might appear less antagonistic.

[FLYMATE]

Finally, the personal attacks will finish. I know I am tired of reading the same old thing from jmc-man and his cynical pals. Me thinks they are probably either all the same person, or regularly prepare amongst themselves what they are going to say, coming across coherent. I have to say, I suspected some other motive for their comments...I am glad though that the enthusiasm of us at NOW has prevailed over cynicism...Tailscrape, your apology is accepted, jmc-man still harps on about the same old thing so far, yarpy, good luck on your courses, TtreeTrimmer hope to see you online some time soon...Imagine if the same amount of energy expounded here went into jmc-man's career, he would be higher up the corporate ladder than he seems to be...

[Yarpy]

I quite agree FLYMATE.

I had a scan through the forums relating to other startup airlines. E.g. Astraeus, FlyJet, Air Southwest. Jet2, bmibaby etc. There was a marked lack of 'anti' comments. This is a pilots forum and any pilot would be pleased to learn of possible career and employment opportunities.

The difference about NOW is that it is in easyJets back yard. My guess is that all the negative comments and arguments on this thread probabaly come a cabal of easyJet commercial people.

The issue? Loss of pilots to a rival carrier. Well, NOW has a new culture and has hired a first rate rostering officer. They seem to have a handle on some key issues of employee culture which might be lacking elsewhere. I, for one, am impressed and very happy to be joining them.

On the fixed price ticket issue a friend who is a management consultant made an interesting point. Namely that the low cost carrier doesn't make its money from the sale of cheap tickets sold well in advance but from the expensive tickets sold when the flight is approaching full. Therefore, the fixed price ticket with NOW will be very attractive close to departure date. This could dent easyJets revenue stream if and when NOW competes on the same routes.

Its a new business plan and time will tell. In any case, as others have pointed out, NOW can always change its fare structure.

[FLYMATE]

Yarpy, (and others starting at NOW), what are your start dates...? Mine is November 1st...

[tailscrape]

ttree ttrimmer

"why give people a start date"? : Well, i call it commitment from an employer.

Flymate

Make no mistake. I did indeed work with jmc man, in jmc. We are NOT the same person!

As regards my motivation, I was aghast to be kept hanging on by NOW. I spoke to them on several occasions and heard the same thing..... contracts to br issued shortly, we have you down for the first training course etc etc.

And then they said, " could you leave within 3 months of your notice period?"

Why ask that? If they wanted me to be on the first course, they should have given me a contract immediately.

I hope it works, because as you all say, the NOW bunch are NICE! However, the whole process left me feeling nervous, so I decided to stay put in my current job!

Hope that answers your questions!:ok:

[FLYMATE]

If you had given your reasons earlier in the thread, then we would have understood your feelings about starting with Now. However as you didn't and tended to be very negative about them, it seemed you had something you weren't telling us all. It would have been helpful just to tell us the reasons for your anger, instead you tended to discourage others in this thread that were enthusiastic about joining a new venture. As a consequence of your negative comments, maybe some good people were scared off and now will not be joining Now. Not all of us have the same personal circumstances, some of us can wait, some want an immediate start date(like you expressed). Now are accommodating everyone at their own pace. Why employ people and then leave them sitting at home doing nothing? Best get the airline up and running, and bring online the people you need as they are required, hence Senior Cabin Crew members starting on the 1st of Nov, No 2's on the 3rd Nov, and Juniors starting Jan 4th...

[jmc-man]

Looking at those start dates, it would appear that a commercial start closer to Christmas is on the cards. That would at least give a quick burst of activity leading up to and post Christmas.

February might be a bit grim, unless one of the destinations was within reach of a Ski destination.

w.r.t the Blue Fox operation, fundamentally flawed ( wrong airport, business model that struggled to stand up to scrutiny and ultimately lack of the proper finance). Some big hitters put their name behind it though. Even got some training started......

[Sqdn Ldr Weather]

So maybe they will fly some aeroplanes after all, better late than never, but will the venture succeed?

Quite a risk to predict success here, specially as it is starting from easyJets home base and targetting easyJets pax.

Will the boys in orange boiler suits take it lying down. I dont think so. Somebody mentioned their (easys) commercial department in one of the posts above and if my information is correct they are likely to go for the throat on this one. Their is little doubt that the Now pricing structure is flawed and will have to change very quickly to fill the seats once they are underway.

So jmc-man can get his champers out and we will all have a nice little drinkey to celebrate the start of a new venture. Actually jmc-man, if you save a few bottles from the case we can have those at the winding up party, should be around June nexct year!

Cheers! Hic :=

[saltrock surfer]

What a load of sad people some of the contributors are - here's to a new airline and I'm looking forward to it.

jmc-man just take your chip on the shoulder somewhere else

[saltrock surfer]

Me again. Sqdn Ldr Weather . I just saw another post from you elsewhere trying to justify something desperatejet at Luton are doing with you talking about easyjet in the first perosn, yet here whilst pouring scorn on a new competitor you talk as if you are not with easyjet yourself.

One must wonder whether your post is your view, some orange propaganda you've swallowed or are you related to Mad McMax

If you orange guys are good, why are you so afraid?

[FLYMATE]

With what vitriol you post the comment of looking forward to the demise of NOW. You certainly must be a vicious man. To rejoice at the unemployment of 300 people says much about your character. Rather than encourage success you wish to celebrate with champagne the failure of NOW. How absolutely dispicable. Tuns me orange with disgust, there again Sqn Ldr Weather probably is already wearing orange. How comical he must look.

[Gypsy]

S/L Wx - ' better late then never'

Sounds like an easyjet motto to me

[Yarpy]

>>Rather than encourage success you wish to celebrate with champagne the failure of NOW. <<

The issue is that easyJet are worried about losing pilots to NOW for a nicer culture and a decent rostering officer.

easyJet need to get more pilots to cash in on the burgeoning low fares market. NOW need the same pilots to get their share of the market.

There is enough ripe fruit for the picking IF you can get the pilots . . .

The more I see people knocking NOW the more I take heart that the oppostion is really worried.

[jmc-man]

Yarpy,

I know this is a predominately pilot-orientated website, but please grab a dose of reality.

Pilots are not the issue here...its PASSENGERS. You need passengers FIRST, to pay for the pilots, aircraft and everything else.

NOW have done nothing to get passengers. Their website hasn't been updated since July, and the fact that they feel it more important to spend money on pilot training when they can't even get the website up to date, does not augur well for a team with focus on what it will take to make it successful.

I am delighted to see pilots get work, I am delighted with anything that improves the lot of the aviation community. But I also despair of organisations that talk big and deliver short. All those people who are now under training with NOW could have a very short lived career unless someone gets the lead out and starts to find passengers who will book seats and pay the bills.

As I've said above, I've seen all this before, hence my scepticism.

And they better be prepared for the agressive response from Sleezy to anyone on their patch.

[Priscilla Moonbeam]

Flymate

You seem be to a little at odds with yourself.

Here is an excerpt from your post on 1 Sep:

I am all for opinions. When an opinion is shared, please at least listen and if you don't agree with it, at least don't go about trying to assassinate their character.

and yet by 6th Sept, a post by Sqdn Ldr Weather manages to elicit this response from you:


With what vitriol you post the comment of looking forward to the demise of NOW. You certainly must be a vicious man. To rejoice at the unemployment of 300 people says much about your character. Rather than encourage success you wish to celebrate with champagne the failure of NOW. How absolutely dispicable. Tuns me orange with disgust, there again Sqn Ldr Weather probably is already wearing orange. How comical he must look.

A little inconsistent wouldn't you say? However, very amusing for the rest of us.

Also amusing is the fact that a contributor to this thread (the tooth fairy code of honour prevents me from naming him) who has had strong connections with Now for the last three months, the connection about to become even stronger, has not felt able to bring himself to provide any useful information at all about the start date. I'm sure there's a very good reason for this but I can't think of it at the moment. Ideas anyone?


Priscilla Moonbeam
Acting Chief Tooth Fairy ;)

[FLYMATE]

The posts you mention were posted after many requests to those in question to be a little more "open minded". Since they continued to post vitrionic posts it was through pure "anger" at these posts I said such things. Seems no one wants to be constructive on the thread. I will from now on just view and examine what people say. If however a personal attack on myself or NOW takes place, I will contribute a post accordingly.

Cynics take note: Offers of employment went out in August, uniform forms were despatched shortly before that, so we could submit our measurements to them in time to start, a get together attended by about 75 people took place In August, our references and criminal record forms were requested back in July, Chief pilots and Cabin Services managers and all the main players such as rosterers are in place: An indication that NOW are very much up and running.

[jmc-man]

FLYMATE

What constitutes a "personal attack on NOW"?

Ok, I'm a cynic...and I take note of your list of things that have happened to date, but that doesn't mean NOW is up and running, anything but.

NOW will be deemed (in industry terms) to be up and running when the first passenger books, the first aircraft is seen in NOW colours, the schedule is announced, the Operating Licence and AOC are issued, and finally the first flight carrying fare paying passengers departs.

Until then it is nothing more than a plan....and an optimistic one at that.

Out pf curiosity, I wonder exactly what the Rosterers are actually rostering, if the schedule isn't firmed up yet, and a start date not agreed.

[saltrock surfer]

Oh Gawd!

It seems absolutely obvious that jmc-man is anti as a result of something that happened between him and someone involved with NOW somewhere in his past. It is also obvious that Priscilla, Mad Max and S/L Weather are all easyjet spin merchants, and one can only wonder why they find it necessary to attack a start up competitor in this way.

One of the keys to success for easy and NOW will be getting (and keeping) enough pilots, so perhaps that gives you an insight as to the hive of incognito orange activity on this thread. In the cricumstances is anyone surprised that NOW are playing their cards close to their chest?

Perhaps easy guys could show the way and announce the new routes that they will be launching from Luton (assuming that easy can find enough pilots to fly them)! From reading the above, Max and Priscilla all seem to think that airlines should make such announcements early, so come on lets hear it! I presume jmc-man would support such a call.

As I asked before, if easy is so good, why are you guys in such a flap about this?

This thread is beginning to give a better insight to the workings of easyjet than anything to do with NOW

PS: I know people with start dates so what you're really upset about Max is that NOW haven't shared that information with you

[kpiko3]

Surely Tony Camacho will have some contacts with Ryanair at Prestwick for Maintenance with the whole Buzz/Ryanair thing,Also the Prestwick Branch specialises in 737-200,300 and 800,which would suit NOW fine if they could work out a good contract with Ryaniar.
At least something could work out for NOW if they ever get off the ground.

Kpik:ok:

[Yarpy]

There are certain stances you would not expect a professional airline pilot to take. One of these is wishing that a rival airline fails. Some pilots, mostly those with good seniority in long established carriers, are in secure positions. Most others can expect to work for several airlines during their careers. I have never, ever, heard a fellow airline pilot hope for another airline to fail. Most of us are aware of the problems individuals and their families suffer through unemployment and have a healthy respect for the situation. And, dare I say it, you become more aware of your own vulnerability with increasing maturity.

I doubt if jmc-man, LTNman, Sqdn Ldr Weather & Priscilla Moonbeam etc. are anything more than a little cabal of easyJet commercial managers running a feeble smear campaign. They certainly do not think like any airline pilots I have ever known.

The issue that NOW has created for easyJet is pilot retention. It is very difficult for an established organisation to change its culture even if it desperately needs to. For those who don't like the easyJet management team or rostering practices there is now an alternative on the doorstep. The NOW culture will be more aligned to the GO culture.

Bear in mind that easyJet is seeking to expand. There is plenty of business out there for NOW to succeed without going near easyJets patch. Equally, there are plenty of first rate easyJet pilots who would prefer a more comfortable home . . .

[kpiko3]

The now website staits the following,

Ibiza,Rome,Valencia 55 gbp
Manchester 35 gbp
Jersey 40 gbp
Hamburg,Dusseldorf 45 gbp
Lisbon 65 gbp
Tenerife 75 gbp

All direct from London Luton,Now also states that they intend to start in October.

kpiko

[FLYMATE]

Your comments are very encouraging, and I am afraid I cannot be bothered anymore in combat with jmc-man, priscilla and the like. I like reading the comments and have myself fallen into the trap of lashing out. I've decided not to bother replying to the "orange" snipes. Once we are settled in the NOW culture, I will certainly look out for the "orange" knocking at the purple and green doors of NOW for a job...

[jmc-man]

Kpiko3,

The website has said that since July sometime....but if you click " deatinations" there is nothing.

A lot of those "original" routes wouldn't work now, particularly Ibiza and Lisbon. Manchester is too short a sector to work from Luton.

Hamburg and Dusseldorf might have some potential if they wern't being thrashed to death across in Stansted.

Tenerife would be a good destination for the Winter, something that the likes of MyTravel Lite and Monarch have cottoned onto, and they are flooding the market with seat only capacity.

Jersey for the winter? Probably not.

Rome might work although well served by Ryanair and easyJet

Valencia....yep, good winter traffic for Brits living in that part of the world...not sure there's enough for a daily flight...

Yarpy, it has already been mentioned elsewhere that I have NOTHING whatsoever to do with easyjet. Just consider me the resident cynic....

And don't try to make this personal. If you have something to contribute about my stated opinions of the start-up then do so. Sticks and stones etc etc.

I have never stated that I WISH NOW to fail, I have stated my concerns that the start-up APPEARS haphazard, without direction, without passengers, and without money.

I somehow doubt many of you have even the faintest notion about the GO culture. If you did, you would realise that one of the strongest values within that organisation was " Do what you say you'll do".

NOW havn't exactly lived up to that now, have they?

Start date...remember......the thread topic?

[Sqdn Ldr Weather]

well I dont know what to say.

If anyone dares to suggest that the business plan of Now ailrines could be improved upon they are the subject of personal abuse.

I just thought it would be a shame to see good champagne go to waste thats all.

Nobody wishes for the hopes of the people invovled in this new company to be dashed, its just that I think they will be really up against it to be successful. Look at the facts, its in easys back yard and trying to poach their pax with a fixed price fare system. Best of luck y'all youll need it.

Wx.

[FLYMATE]

Sticking to the thread's subject: As stated in my letter received by me back in August from NOW:
start date: *********(Edited as possibly commercially sensitive)

[jmc-man]

Just for clarity, FLYMATE, is that YOUR start date, or NOW's start date.

[FLYMATE]

My start date, along with all other Seniors, ******all number 2's, *****all juniors. Does that indicate to you that we will be flying in *******? Seniors and number 2's rostered together for first month until juniors also come on line.(***=Edited out as possibly commercially sensitive). Sorry chaps, but seems easyJet snoops also read this thread and report back to the orange brigade.

[saltrock surfer]

I did'nt know at first the extent to which easyjet management would interfer on these pages. I know people with start dates but with hindsight its probably best not to give any more details here.

Quite frankly I'm personally disgusted with some of the above especially given easyjets constant bleating in their early days about Big Airways dirty tricks and how unfair it was for the small guys.

We all know where Max, Priscilla and S/L Weather are coming from. jmc man just has a huge chip on his shoulder about something - yes he is entitled to opinion but it seems to be a crusade for him.

What a load of sad people _ I've said my bit now and can't be bothered to reply to any more of this nonsense. I expect time will tell and my best wishes are with NOW

[eng123]

Just to add my [timid] opinion.By the way,I have no connection or desire to be connected with NOW.I'm with the 'other lot' from Dublin as a maintenance engineer.
I just wanted to agree with jmc-man about the destinations.As someone that is within reasonable distance of LTN and STN,the only destination that tickled my fancy was Tenerife.If they offer that at £50 or so then I'll definitly book.As for the rest then I think they are pretty much covered by the other low cost airlines.They must be mad to fly into Rome for instance as RYR will beat them hands down.There is little value in the old boring nonsense about RYR flying to the middle of nowhere with regard to Rome as CIA is actually closer to the centre than FMO.

By the way,what are the maintenance plans for NOW? For an airline so close to start date there must be a plan somewhere.

[homesick rae]

They are advertising for Cabin Crew...again...on AJS.

[jmc-man]

Goodbye Saltrock, as you didn't contribute much to the discussion, your lack of further participation will likely go un-noticed.

FLYMATE, thanks for at least your INITIAL offer of clarifying the start date. I understand if you feel you cannot publish the dates. In reality, it should be down to your management to let the public know when they'll be able to buy seats. I was just seeking clarification as to whether your letter included a first operational date, or just a date for start of employment.

No doubt all will be revealed as soon as the finance is confirmed.

[Yarpy]

{I was just seeking clarification as to whether your letter included a first operational date, or just a date for start of employment.}

I.e. just another play from easyJet to get commercially sensitive information.

[FLYMATE]

It was MY start date, which would be obvious as crew have to be trained first, to operate later...eng123, the operations details are for the operations department of the airline.

[jmc-man]

Yes, lets keep it completely secret becaus it's commercially sensitive.

I mean , we don't want passengers finding out or anything like that. Heaven forbid, they might want to book seats to our exciting destinations!

Sorry...

Whats that?

Oh, we can't tell them the destinations either ! Ah , commercially sensitive, of course. How silly of me! But at least we can show the pictures of our aircraft that our newly recruited highly trained crew will operate.

Oh, can't show them that either. Commercially sensitive I suppose.

Oh well.....

Guys ...grow up.

Yarpy...for the last time...I have nothing to do with easyJet.

[FLYMATE]

Jmc-man, yawn, yawn,...Do you really think I would put anything on here for you and the cynics to bleat on back to your head offices?

[Gypsy]

jmc-man - given the content of your posts, I'm afraid that suggestions from you that others should grow up lack a certain credibility.

Overall, I agree with an earlier comment that this thread is telling us more about easyJet than NOW.

Somehow, I don't recall British Airways managers coming on PPRUNE using psuedonyms to try and wreck easyJet!

[FLYMATE]

Gypsy, remember when your best friend that had always wanted to get to work for an airline got into an airline after many attempts? That feeling of happiness and "good for you" is what jmc-man should be feeling for all of us about to start at NOW. Instead he keeps on at the same old thing. He is trying to demoralise us, and dissuade others interested in joining, to actually not join us. How nasty is that!? Why can't the cynics just shut up and let us get on with our lives. He obviously has nothing else to do other than try to spread nasty comments on this forum. He tries to be clever in his posts. I am sure he is at work back at jmc exactly what he is here, a rather nasty repetitive man who simply cannot let the matter go.

[jmc-man]

I feel good for you, Gypsy and Flymate, particularly you Gypsy as I know you well, and have met you many times.

But I hope it works out.

And without the finance and passengers....

So I'll wait until NOW announce something before making any further comment on this thread...

Just make sure you are being told the truth, before shutting any career doors

From someone who has seen it all too often before

[FLYMATE]

I draw a line now and hopefully we can move on to talk about things with a bit more friendliness.

[Priscilla Moonbeam]

errm - what shall we talk about now then?

Anyone going anywhere nice for half term?

Cills :bored:

[The Southend King]

12 pages of crap....and still no start date.

Maybe I should start another thread....viability of new low cost airlines in a saturated market.

or rename this thread ...SOON.....or NEVER!!!

:* :* :*

[FLYMATE]

Well then how about someone closes this thread. It is rather tiresome reading the same old thing...

[Cyrano]

Just back from the Routes conference in Edinburgh, where the rumour was that the Now start has been deferred to December. This may or may not be true, but it's what I heard there.

[Powerjet1]

I heard that an update to the website is imminent, possibly today, so could be. Have to see if anything transpires.

[tailscrape]

flymate

****** off then. We are all enjoying reading the continual rumours of slippage of commercial start by NOW.

As for jmc man being nasty......

:{ has he made you cry?

[FLYMATE]

Your valuable comment has been noted, now moving on to anyone with anything valuable to say...?

[stalling attitude]

why has this thread become so nasty and vindictive.

the way i see it is that if NOW start flying to different destinations to EASY etc then that means more planes flying which means more pilots needed and so more people will be interested in my skills and so salaries will rise and more people will get jobs.

simplistic and niave maybe but i hope NOW do get airborne.

p.s no im not applying to them

[Beyond]

People seem to forget that EZJ have A LOT, an awful lot, of aircraft arriving over the next couple of years. The idea that they are going to leave NOW routes alone, or even allow NOW to get a toehold on routes is laughable. With fixed pricing, the job will be easy, but even if they abandon the fixed pricing, the battle with NOW is one EZJ have to win if only to give them routes to put all these new units on.