Affordable aviation

[Shamow]

I've been hanging around the forums for a while, going through lots of old posts and considering what kind of flying would appeal to me. I considered the commercial airline route but, for my own various reasons, I have discarded that notion for the time being.

After a fair bit of research (on the web, magazines and from books) it looks like the most affordable way for me to fly (and continue to keep flying) would be in 3-axis microlights. Flexwings look like fun but I have my mind set on 3-axis.

After doing all the research I wonder if any 3-axis pilots could answer a few questions for me as I'd like to hear the information from people with experience.

(i) Maintanance - I am a complete novice when it comes to engines and how they work. I can service my car (oil, spark plugs, air filter, oil filter) but ask me how parts interlink or what a carb does and I haven't a clue. Is this something you get taught along the way or should I do as much studying as possible before flying? How much do you need to know about engines and their workings?

(ii) Weather restrictions - I have done over 500 skydives in approx. 4 years so I am no stranger to how the British weather can affect your aerial enjoyment. What wind restrictions are there on flying 3-axis aircraft and how do you cope if you're miles from home and the wind picks up.

(iii) Cost to run - One of the main attractions of 3-axis aircraft is that they seem relatively cheap to buy second hand and also to run. Could someone give me a breakdown of their monthly/yearly cost to own their aircraft detailing where the money is spent.

(iv) Insurance - Can you get life insurance to cover this? How much does it cost you to insure your aircraft?

(v) Training - I live in the South East at the moment but am looking to move back to my homeland of lovely Lancashire. Has anyone trained up that way? I've looked on the web and there seem to be a few schools - anyone got recommendations?

And finally...

The MiniMax - this aircraft looks beautiful and if I can convince my other half to let me have a single seater this would be the one I would love to have - affordable and sexy. However, like I said before, I have been skydiving for quite some time and fully
understand the need to walk before you can run. Is the MiniMax something a microlight pilot with a fresh license could handle or is it something to build up to.

Many thanks to anyone that thas the time and patience to answer this post and I hope my questions don't appear too naieve.


:D

[Fly Stimulator]

Shamow,

Probably the best place to get answers to these questions is at the British Microlight Aircraft Association's (BMAA) bulletin board here. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microlights/)

Once you've negotiated the arcane Yahoo sign-up process you should get a good response if you post the question there.

You can also trawl through the archive of old messages. I know there have been some about the Minimax from time to time.

[Shamow]

Many thanks - I have signed up for the forum.

If any microlight pilots do read this please give a reply as I will still check this post.

:)

[QNH 1013]

Several members and past members of our Jodel group used to be microlighters and say that our Jodel offers lower cost flying than microlighting. Plus it has two seats and you don't get rained on. So I would suggest you at least consider the PFA permit aircraft as a route to low-cost aviation.
To give you some figures to play with, our group's costings are:
Share price £2500 (6 members)
Monthly sub by standing order £37 each
Hourly rate £6 per hour take-off to land dry
We buy our own avgas and always leave the aircraft full for the next person to fly. Fuel burn is approx 18 litres per hour at 94p / litre. The group pays for the oil.
Landing fees at home airfield, plus 19 other airfields with reciprocal arrangements are nil.
The only other cost is the membership fee at home airfield which is approx £140 pa per member.
You need a group A PPL to fly the aircraft.

[Shamow]

Interesting about the Jodel.

To go slightly off topic here - how do you organise the aircraft between six of you. Do you have to book well in advance? I am only able to fly weekends or holidays - if everyone is like this do you get many clashes?

Do you have a plan in case any major work needs doing to the aircraft?

Thanks for reply - certainly interesting.

[QNH 1013]

Answers:
We keep a booking diary behind the desk at the airfield reception (as do several of the other based groups). We just ring up to see if the aircraft is free when we want it, and they write our name in the diary. In the five years I have been in the group we have never needed any restrictions on how much time members can book. It's just first-come, first-served but if someone wants to take the aircraft abroad for a week or so they always ring round the other members and let them know. There have only been two occassions in the past five years when I wanted the aircraft on a particular day for something special and someone else had booked it first. We are (mostly) considerate and for example, tend to book a maximum of a half day during winter weekends so up to four people can fly during daylight hours that weekend, weather willing. In practice, members are more limited by their wives and by their spare time than aircraft availability. The aircraft tends to fly about 150 hours each year, and often two members fly together and share costs and flying time.

Our plan to cope with unexpected bills is to have a healthy balance in the group funds. We do this by carefully ensuring that the monthly subscription plus the hourly charge keeps the kitty healthy. It has worked well and we keep the charges under review. We have had to increase the monthly charge from £25 to £37 over the past five years because of increased hangarage and insurance costs.

We spent £8000 on a zero-timed engine two years and 300 engine hours ago . We are on schedule to have enough for an overhaul at 1000 hours and another zero-timed engine at 2000 hours.

Yes, we could get caught out by a run of bad luck, but we try to keep on top of things. In the past 5 years the aircraft has only been unavailable for 8 weeks and that was while we had the engine zero-timed.

We also keep costs down and make things simple by not having any group-owned accessories. i.e. we all buy our own headsets, gps handhelds, lifejackets etc. I've seen some groups waste a fortune buying and maintaining extras like these.

[javelin]

I would agree with QNH. I have nothing against any Microlights or their operators, but when I have compared costs, a Jodel, Champ, Cub etc always works out cheaper. Get 3 or 4 of you together and you will have great fun flying, learning about maintenance and aircraft ownership.

[Shamow]

Well, now this has got me thinking. I've got a funny feeling I might not be getting much work done this afternoon as I do some more research on all this.

As an aside, I was thinking of going to the PFA rally this weekend. Maybe chat to aircraft and microlight owners down there and get some info from the horses mouth.

Thanks for the replies.

[Kingy]

I've got to agree with QNH 1013 here (hello Mate) the PFA route is the cheapest 3 axis flying around. Let me give you an example.. I own a 1/3rd share in a FRED. It's a folding wing single seat PFA plans build aircraft with a VW 1834 engine. The purchase price was £2500. Thats £833 each. It uses about 12L hour of unleaded and does 60knots. We operate it from our own strip and we pay £40PM hangarage. Lets look at the costs:

hangarage: £480PA
Permit, maintenance etc. £250 PA

Total= £ 730 PA

That's divided by three= £243 per year each

Lets say we only do 15 hours each per year so thats:

12 X 74 = £8.88 PH fuel X15= £133

So its £376 (£25ph) per year 'all in' for 15hrs flying in your own aircraft.

But lets say you want to do 30 hrs, the costs come down to £16 per hour...!

You can do all the maintainence yourself, and the value of the thing will slowly rise If looked after.

We don't bother with insurance on the FRED and work on a 'bent it, mend it' basis. lets face it, even if it is written off we only have to find two and a half grand...

I have nothing against microlights or their pilots, but the PFA group 'A' route really does offer better value all the way.

I am so convinced of this that I can't stop buying 'em... erm, I own six at the last count! and my total investment? about the same as a tatty PA28...

:D

Kingy

[Genghis the Engineer]

Whilst I don't dispute that the PFA system offers good value for money, I think to say it's substantially better value is unfair.

Fact is that whether you buy a PFA type, or a similar microlight most of the costs will be the same. Hangerage, permit fees, fuel burn, maintenance etc. don't vary much. You are maybe more likely to get spares for a microlight since most of them were built here by companies that still exist, on the other hand if you've the skills the PFA lets you make your own up (conversely BMAA let you sign for most of your own maintenance and PFA require you to get your inspector in). On a microlight license you save by not needing a BFR (and if you don't currently own a license getting that is cheaper), and in both you hit minor legalities when trying to fly abroad.

So, pick the type that gives you what you want, and join the association that supports it (better still join both). Either way, you'll get fun cheap flying. Obviously with either, being part of a group is cheaper (but less flexible for you) than joint ownership. (Needless to say, comparing sole ownership of a microlight with shared ownership of a light aircraft will never give a fair picture.)

And by all accounts the Minimax is fine for a low-hours pilot so long as you've got a few hours on a light taildragger first such as a Thruster.

G

[Shamow]

As you were all good enough to reply I thought I'd give you a quick update.

1hr trial flying lesson is booked for this weekend in either a Warrior or a Cheetah. Will let you know what I think of it all...