American ATPL Desperate to Leave the US, Can Anyone Help? [Archive]

your_dreamguy

6th Jul 2003, 05:01

Hello,
I am currently flight instructing near the Los Angeles area. I have my university degree, 5 years experience as an aeronautical engineer and my ATPL.
Anyway, I really do not want to live in the US anymore. If anyone knows airlines, corporates, personal contacts, etc. anywhere in the world, I would be willing to move. My first choice is Europe. I am pretty desperate...but not desperate enough for a fake marriage (I was offered a fake marriage on my trip to Lithuania a month ago).

Any help is greatly appreciated :ok:

Pointer

6th Jul 2003, 06:28

you should have gone for the fake marriage, since its an in-appropriate posting on this particulate forum. Try dating services.

Pointer

stevethescotspilot

6th Jul 2003, 08:48

Why are you so desperate to leave the US? Most people I know would gladly go the opposite way!
Just asking,
Steve

Corporate Yank

6th Jul 2003, 10:46

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

CY

Airbubba

6th Jul 2003, 14:23

Take four more with you!

727Man

6th Jul 2003, 16:22

Life is not always greener on the other side of the pond! Im American and have been in Europe since 1994 but would like to return to the US. It is much the same here in Europe in Aviation pretty Dead! If you are lucky you will get the odd job with an FAA
License, but you need a JAR Atpl if you want to work in Europe plus right of abode in an EU country! how about we do a Swap!
one thing I have noticed in Europe if you do apply for a Job at least you get a reply! not in the US.

DownIn3Green

7th Jul 2003, 09:51

get lost, you dreamer...if you don't want to be in the usa, turn in your passport and get out...both of the country, and the cockpit...

If you really are an instructor, what kind of cr@p are you putting out to your students, you malcontent...

TRF4EVR

7th Jul 2003, 12:05

Lets be a little bit more helpful here, shall we? If this gentleman doesn't wish to reside in the greatest nation the earth has ever seen, I see it as our duty to assist in his relocation.

Europe is pretty hard to swing. I had a similarly (inexplicably) dissatisfied friend that looked in to it. They protect their jobs over there (fighting for crumbs, next to the shining beacon of aviation that is the US ;) ). However, he found work in South America and Africa at various points. Might start there.

Good luck.

Flytaff

7th Jul 2003, 14:40

Not sure why an American pilot wants to leave the US and try for a job in Europe. I'm British and would like to move back to the UK for obvious reasons, however without a JAR or CAA conversion you will have a hard time. I have currently instructed out here in the States for over 5 years and the flying has been great, I plan to stay here until the economy picks up and I can obtain a regional Airline position and build some more turbine time (yes I am Married to an American for the proper reasons however), the fact remains in Europe even if you have your conversion unless you have gone through one of the Airline flight schools such as CabAir or have at least 500 hrs turbine time they will not look at you, a English friend of mine returned home around 1 year ago with his FAA ATP, 2000hrs Total, and JAR/CAA ATP and cannot get anything.

The only possibilities I can suggest are look for countries which have adopted the FAA or work in conjuction with them I.E Cyprus , get a work visa or passport hopefully through legal means, find FAA registered operations abroad e.g Falcon Express in Dubai UAE (flys B1900) or be thankful for what you've got!!!

Cheers Flytaff:O

N380UA

7th Jul 2003, 18:54

Prise the lord we are delivered! Halleluiah!

The golden land where honey and milk flow side by side the only piece of god given earth to be! The true blue red white and blue US of :mad: A!

Stupid me thinking the fighting of the Promised Land was in the Middle East.
Yo, don’t ya’ll have some nation to pick a war on? Let’s see; how ‘bout Tibet, I sure they got some evil master plan to destroy the US.

But seriously now, your_dreamguy, what has been said so far about opportunities in Europe is right.

You’ll need a JAR conversion and then you’ll need a work permit either for the EU or any other European country which is non EU i.e. Switzerland. Once you got a conversion a potential employer may see to it that you get a work and residency permit.

To start out with a major carrier is rather unlikely as the lines of qualified pilots are long. A chance how ever is regional, charter may be or business aviation. From there you’ll stand a good chance as the economy picks up again to be in line with a major carrier.

Surfing the internet on business aviation in Europe (i.e. landings.com) should give you a wealth of operators address.

As some have said, you may well be qualified and yet not get an offer, what I’m trying to say is a bit of luck won’t be the worst thing.

Marriage, for the right reason is always a plus, perhaps in the future such a chance may come up. And another pointer, learn the language, and be involved in your new community become a citizen be a check pilot or management pilot for your company. Become too important in all aspects to be laid of in bad times again as foreigners may get the boot first for obvious reasons.

All the best mate.

DC10RealMan

8th Jul 2003, 01:54

I was interested in Dreamguys postings because I have some friends from the US visiting me shortly and who intend to make inquiries about living in Europe despite being US citizens. Their reasons are not work related but are more concerned with their perceived quality of life here in Europe, but they are Californians!.

buffalowing

8th Jul 2003, 02:32

Come to Europe all you oppressed, down-trodden people of "the greatest nation the earth has ever seen".

Check 6

8th Jul 2003, 02:53

"Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)

New York City 1883

;)

StressFree

8th Jul 2003, 04:07

"Greatest nation on earth............"

Oh dear, things seem to have got worse than I thought - delusion is a very nasty disease.....

:yuk:

Huron Topp

8th Jul 2003, 08:15

Some of these comments need to be passed onto the Current Affairs board in the ""What the world thinks of America" Thread ".:uhoh:

What's wrong Yanks, has it now become illegal to move outta the country?

get lost, you dreamer...if you don't want to be in the usa, turn in your passport and get out...both of the country, and the cockpit...

Suggest you boys not forget to take your valium, paxil or whatever next time. Grow up.

Corporate Yank

8th Jul 2003, 10:56

Men, I think you're missing the point. If youi don't like it here, JUST LEAVE. Our customs won't stop you.

Blue Skies,
CY

Huron Topp

8th Jul 2003, 20:01

They would if he was carrying nail clippers.;)

Faire d'income

9th Jul 2003, 04:28

Or if you were going to Cuba!
Or if you had a laser pen.
Or if you had a scissors.
Or if ( like me ) you had spare razors for shaving purposes.

Maybe the guy just wants to see some of the world. You can't really be sure you are the 'greatest nation in the world' if you haven't seen much of it. I read once only 6% of US citizens hold a passport, if this is true it could be the least great nation in the world and 94% of the population wouldn't know it.

Personally having lived there twice I think it is a fantastic country but it has flaws just like every other country.

Airbubba

9th Jul 2003, 05:06

Hey, maybe France or Britain is the greatest nation on earth, who knows <g>... You folks shouldn't have such an inferiority complex whenever the U.S. is mentioned.

Trust me, it's terrible here, you wouldn't like it.

Techman

9th Jul 2003, 05:41

I rather think that a true sign of an inferiority complex is the incessant need to proclaim one's greatness.

If one is truly confident in one's magnificence, it shouldn't be necessary to constantly announce it far and wide. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

TRF4EVR

9th Jul 2003, 05:43

Fish On! <grin>

cjp

9th Jul 2003, 05:54

Hey, maybe France or Britain is the greatest nation on earth, who knows <g>... You folks shouldn't have such an inferiority complex whenever the U.S. is mentioned.

Huh? you don't get it, do you? Faire isn't saying the USA is the greatest nation on earth, he is are making fun of the fact that the USA are the self-proclaimed greatest nation on earth.

Other than that I agree with you. Last place I would want to live. Especially after the increase in ignorant patriotism we have seen in recent years.

Example in point DownIn3Green. Grow up. Isn't America meant to be about the freedom, to do, say, and achieve as one wishes?

Hope I'm never on your trans-atlantic aircraft. Do you boot the passengers off personally at LHR? :mad:

your_dreamguy

9th Jul 2003, 06:13

Read Posts by DownIn3Green and Corporate Yank and I think you'll see why anyone would choose to live in Europe over the US.

Of course, in typical American fahion, CY and DownIn3Green wouldn't talk that way to me in person, backstabbing taken to an artform by Americans. Of course, they can try meeting me in person if they've got the guts.

Also, notice another thing about these two "rocket scientists." They didn't answer my question, they provided nothing useful and got mad and made themselves look bad instead. These two are prime examples on why most people around the world hate Americans. Personally, I'm glad Parisians treat Americans the way they do, i.e. give them a taste of their own medicine. Also note, that when I visited Paris, I was treaty nicely for the most part.

Anyway, there are many Americans like myself that are educated and have traveled around the world. There are Americans that have relocated to europe and other places and found hapiness, even if their lifestyle was different or not what they were used to.

Take Care. If you have something constructive to say, please post.

Aussierotor

9th Jul 2003, 08:10

Macdonalds are world wide so dont have to worry about the cuisine.

As for the best country ,sheesh ,everyone knows its the land from downunder.
Who said crime doesnt pay ,all those Poms years ago caught stealing a loaf of bread and sent to the penal colony.
The bakeries in Britian cant keep up with people trying the same thing. hehe

Airbubba

9th Jul 2003, 08:21

Yet another applicant for citizenship of the Greatest Nation on Earth in today's Canadian news:

http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=843A74E7-0324-47CB-A3C8-842B499D3A53

We'll ship some draft dodgers and gay marriage applicants in return <g>.

Aussierotor

9th Jul 2003, 08:23

As for someone wanting to leave their home country-----nothing wrong with that.He didnt mention slamming the door and wiping himself clean of the USA.Cant condemn a guy from wanting a change of scenery and getting out in the world.More should do it and get out of the cacoon.

Huron Topp

9th Jul 2003, 10:04

Mr. Jennings, who will retain his Canadian citizenship, quickly added: "That does not for a second, as any smart American will tell you, mean you have to renounce your roots."

His annual vacation in Canada, he said, "gives me such spiritual refreshment as a human being. We're getting to that time of year where we're on our way up there for a month, and that will forever be 'going home.' "

Bubba: you seemed to have missed some very important points, eh!?:ok: By the way, I've got a can of Bondo I can send you, maybe you can fill in that rather large chip on your shoulder. :rolleyes:

Aussie: good on ya, mate. Well said. I'm just about all set to follow that yellow brick road to Oz myself.:ok:

Apologies for the cut and paste, don't know if thats allowed or not.

Airbubba

9th Jul 2003, 11:20

It must be noted that the poster of the original windup message never said he was one of the chosen few to be born in the promised land. He's quite possibly an H-1 visa or green card holder. Not many Americans would speak of having an ATPL (it's an ATP over here).

If you've ever been an expat you'll know there are very few Americans in that business and when a job pops up back home, they usually take it. Of course, places like DXB and HKG are considered garden spots by some nationalities, it is all relative.

StressFree

9th Jul 2003, 16:17

I like my trips to the US but would never want to live there, no particular reasons, I just prefer Europe.

Its always amusing when in the US though to watch the 'World Series Baseball' - who else in the World plays baseball? To many Americans the US is the World - who can blame them when you've got such a vast wealthy nation...............

:cool:

Aussierotor

9th Jul 2003, 17:12

Murdoch(aussie paperman)Greg Norman ,english pop stars etc love America enough to get citizenship.
Just wondering whether its got anything to do with low taxes ,and half price ferrari,s.
Sure ,its a great place ,but anyone wanting to get out--half there luck ,go and see how others live around the world an experience life.
After talking to a group of 16 year old school kids in Delano, CA some years ago i came to the conclusion that the old Iron Curtain had been wrapped around the USA as none of the kids had a clue where places etc were outside the states ,but they would have all scored 100% on the American War of Indepence and what President had 3 sh!ts a day.
The ones i know outside the US love the different cultures,lingo,style of humour ,lack of seriousness,and gradually pick up a sense of humour.
I think the internet may have helped especially on chat channels
All said ,i will still be back there.
You never know ,i still could be in Canada if they hadnt thrown me out 20 years ago

Huron Topp

9th Jul 2003, 19:54

Good gawd man, what'd ya do? Ya musta pissed on the PMs wifey or something to get chucked out of Canuckistan. :D

PlaneTruth

9th Jul 2003, 23:13

Aussierotor nails it!

As an American kid who spent most of the '60s in Germany, I totally agree. The vast majority in the US have no concept about what the rest of the world has to offer. They also take for granted the quality of life we enjoy here in the US. I thing the problem stems from our liberal education system which has shifted the focus from core subjects like "Reading, Writing, and 'Rithmatic" to touchy-feely subjects. Gone are the foundations of world history and the perspective it provides to a young impressionable mind. This has led to the incredible ignorance that is sweeping the nation. Fortunately, many Americans have chosen to remove their kids from the public school system and teach them at home --or in private academies.

The same is true for Europe. I read an interesting article recently that mentioned the French school systems don't even cover WWII because it is "politically unfavorable" to do so.

Ignorance is spreading across the world and in a short time we will repeat all the lessons that were paid for in human lives. We have proven time and again that those who fail to learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. But, repeat it, we inevitably will.

Ignorance is the most dangerous plague we face. To fail to recognize this is a failure of the first order.

PT

Dan Winterland

10th Jul 2003, 02:37

The good old US of A is truly a great nation and a great place to visit, but I for one would prefer not to live there.

Horses for courses.

jbrereton

10th Jul 2003, 02:39

I'm worried that you guys are pilots. CRM

PlaneTruth

10th Jul 2003, 06:20

jbrereton

"I'm worried that you guys are pilots. CRM"

And what worries you? Or are just the "worried" sort?

PT

AA SLF

10th Jul 2003, 14:29

PlaneTruth -

Totally agree with you regards the state of "education" today here in the good ole USA. We are raisen a pack of dummies, that have no idea about the real world outside of the USA, but they sure do know about "huggin a tree" !

Interesting comment about French education and WW2. I would guess that WW1 and Indochina and Algeria are also "politically unfavorable" as well ! :p

And for DreamGuy - Hey, don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out. Me - I would love for someone to give a couple of million dollars to tour the world and visit and learn about folks outside the USA - but you can be sure I would hang on tight to that blue covered passport so I could get back in !

ps - I can leave on that journey of discovery at a moments notice ..........

dicksynormous

12th Jul 2003, 00:48

join the marines that will get you out of the states. unless you are short sighted and have to wear their issue horn rimmed glasses, and look like a tw@t

peepsmover1

14th Jul 2003, 02:51

I don't think dream guy said anything about renouncing his citizenship, plus give the guy a break he lives in the LAX area, its enough to drive anyone out of the country! Plus with a title like dream guy, the other immodest geeks in LA wont miss the competition, not that they ever noticed, ha!

Seriously, good luck! First try and perhaps get your foot in the door by working for a US company/US Govt Agency/UNations that is based over there and then work the issue from there (network), build your language skills in the interim and then make your big move.
e.g. initially work for the FAA say out of Brussels inspecting international airports for compliance with a plethora of issues.

In the interim it might be a happy medium, you are living in another country, (very cool) and not being taxed as much (truly cool), and you might even luck out to have a housing allowance. (ultra cool). Failing all of that, then go to school over there and work it from that angle or join the French Foreign Legion, with your Aerospace degree you could rig their parachutes...just don't screw that up! Au revoir mon Commando Joque, best wishes! :ok:

AA SLF your post:

""Totally agree with you regards the state of "education" today here in the good ole USA. We are raisen a pack of dummies, that have no idea about the real world outside of the USA, but they sure do know about "huggin a tree" ! "

Well said and on point! I totally agree with the issues you be "raisen" about what them dummies be "huggin."

:ok:

Bus Junkie

23rd Jul 2003, 03:12

When I was in highschool in the USA during the late 1970s, I heard about WWI and II, but never about Korea or Vietnam.

The lack of knowledge the average American has about the rest of the world does not surprise me. The 1980s slashing of the education budget in favor of surporting conservative religous ideals that encourage the idea that the US is "God's Country" has produced GW Bush's presidency. That in turn leaves the population with the view that the rest of the world cannot survive without American aid and guidance.

I moved to the US from the UK thirty years ago, when I was ten. I certainly am no longer anything but American. I like it here very much, but the narrow minded views the vocal American's have remind me that Rome didn't last forever.

Let the flames begin!

saviboy

23rd Jul 2003, 03:33

hi i am a french citizen living in florida, engaged to a wonderful american girl.
The discussion about the US education is very interesting and i Think you guys were very objective and honest.
Before I came to the USA i had heard about the fact that american poeple did not know where to put their country on a globe. I was very surprised to see that it was true for a lot of poeple here.
One thing, though about the WW2 in french schools: it is not true.
i have a 2 year degree and i can guarantee you that i studied both WW's, algeria, indochina and a lot of other things.
i think that France feels comfortable with its behavior in the colonies and during the WW's, even though there is nothing to be proud of.

V1 Rotate

27th Jul 2003, 21:54

I know that I am one of 17 million pilots wordwide who would give their left ball for a Green Card !!
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
V1 Rotate

PlaneTruth

28th Jul 2003, 00:03

saviboy,

Welcome to the States!

YOU may have been educated about WWII but my fear is the younger kids today aren't covering that essential piece of world history. There are a bunch of German skin heads who think the Holocaust was made up and that Dachau and Treblika were movie sets. I can rememebr to this day the feeling I had as a 10 year-old boy looking at the brass gurneys at the mouths of the oven in Dachau and thinking people rode these to their deaths. The lucky ones had been gassed in the showers before. The sheer horror of this reality moved me at a young age. I thought of those my age forced to experience this hell with, or worse, without, their parents.

As for the commenst by Bus Junkie,

I disagree. I can point to examples where the extreme liberal mindset drives the politically correct agenda. If you listen to conservative talk radio, history play a large part of our choices about how to solve current problems without reexperiencing or revisiting the same pain. Lets learn from our past and make better decisions based on what we have learned.

How's that for totally hijacking the thread?

As for DreamGuy, take your passport, have a good time and keep your eyes open. To paraphrse Ah-Nold, "He'll be Baaak!"
PT

:ok:

countbat

28th Jul 2003, 00:05

I will try to put my 2 cents on this thread also but just as an answer to Your Dreamguy.
From what you said it seems that you are educated and very qualified. As a piece of advice if you want to live in Europe you could use your qualifications in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria,Poland, Romania etc). Because of their strong wish of becoming Americanized you could get accepted easier. Europe is a place where social classes barriers have not been completely eliminated. For example: I have a German friend who is an United Captain and he doesn't want to go back to Germany because overthere they still look at him as a low social class person(parents working class people).
In few words here USA we can self-made, but in Europe your birthplace fingerprint can stick for a while.
The reason I am suggesting Eastern Europe is that for now they are more open to outside exoticism and being an American is very cool. Plus overthere is more opportunities because the societies are in full transformation, more corruption also.
Aviation at a Line level impossible(generation to generation transmitted - family business). But at small level (instructing, agricultural, etc )could be possible and the reason is exotic.
Middle East is overpopulated by foreign workers. Africa by missionaries - scary place, South America only if you are part of some drug cartel or you have ministerial connections, Australia can not provide jobs to their own pilots, the Poles kind of cold.
Regarding our knowledge about the rest of the world...... kind of scary thoughts?! I have been fortunate to travel all over the world through my job so that way I got wonderful memories about wonderful places and people. On the same token I am looking to my child(goes to College this fall), finished High School and all the knowledge revolves around the Mall, Hollywood movies, and pets. When food is wasted and try to tell him children around the world are starving he gives me strange not understandable looks. It's sad but pets eat, are taken care of, live better than many people from around the world. If a homeless dies under the bridge nobody gives a damn, but if a dog is lost the whole community gets involved. Something is weird with this picture. And this is just one picture.
Good luck to you, Your_Dreamguy. If aviation is sick in USA outside is buried already - keep that in mind.

PorcoRosso

28th Jul 2003, 19:45

Plane truth

I read an interesting article recently that mentioned the French school systems don't even cover WWII because it is "politically unfavorable" to do so.

Could you be more precise with your sources quoting the shcool program in France ?
My mother, an histrory teacher was never made aware of such change. This would be noticeable since WW2 in french history program account for a quarter of it ... Same for Indochina & WW2

Looking briefly at the official program, I can't see it explained in a "politically correct" way.
Collaboration is largely mentionned (how couldn't it be ? ) Jew deportation by the french government is not hidden.
I don't think you have a clue how aware we are about the french / France attitude during this period, so please
avoid being ridiculous mentionning subjects you are not informed of.

Speaking about "politically correct", I have heard that the FBI/CIA report about the 11th of Sept "forgot" the
Saudi Arabia involvment in those terrible events ... Naaaah ! Can't be true .

Countbat

Sorry not to agree with you, but the heavenly picture you depict about aviation in Eastern Europe is pathetic.
I suggest you try to gather informatiion about immigration regulations in those countries. Most of them won't let you get the citizenship or a job opportunity. Slovakia will hire national only, and the salaries are just enough to live there (1000 USD /months for a TR Capt 737 )
About your idea of "being american is just cool" I think you are way beyond the real picture.
Think of it, they will probably welcome any foreign investor on their land, but they will kick out job seeker , for the simple reason unemployment is massive over there.
And since most of those countries are willing to be part of EU, they tend to be more open to France (for example) thant USA (OK, don't mention the poles not buying the Typhoon ;) )
Oh BTW, my main job is to fly European investors in Eastern countries .

PlaneTruth

28th Jul 2003, 22:15

Porco,

Sorry. The article dealt with political correctness and it's spread to Europe (as well as the financial motivations of president Chirac to stonewall any military action in Iraq, contracts and support of Hussein etc). If your mother teaches in Normandy, that might explain her dedication to passing on to the newest generation the real history of the world, warts and all. The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface the gravesites.

I salute her dedication. Let's hope the kids in the rest of France get the same opportunity.

PT:ok:

countbat

29th Jul 2003, 11:35

Mon cher Porco Rosso,

I tried to answer to the original thread and not to divagate about which is what.
Eastern Europe's situation is well known. Miserable salaries and etc, but it was just an answer to a question. I underlined that they might be more open to americans that's all. Americans being cools to them(eastern europeans) not to french people.
I appreciate France, it is a great nation, great culture, great history and IT HAD ITS TIME IN THE WORLD and maybe someday will have again. European Comunity could become the next superpower, that's very posible, no doubts about.
Don't blame America for being the world only superpower. During history many countries were superpowers. Let me mention just a few: Mesopotania, Siria, Egipt, Greece, Roman Empire, Parthian Empire, Eastern Hordes(too many to mention: huns, avars), Spain, France, England, Germany, Russia and now USA.
Looking through the history (which you should know well) every single country abused its status as power by concquering, enslaving, robing other countries. That includes your beautiful country also. You guys were not such saints when you had the yoke in your hands.
And now is America's time and that might make some countries/people envious...........Tough luck.
Think about.... Only 15 years ago what would have happened if USSR..........I don't want to think about and neither you. Do you believe their "democracy" would have been better?
What about 60 years ago?........How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle, and what about your beautiful language to have been German? Why did Americans got involved in your Indochina?.....I don't want to answer to that one either.
Americans are just good to be used and abused?
But you did help us during our Revolution. I will give you that.
So bottom line we might have screwed some things from time to time. Nobody is perfect, and what are friends for?......to help....right..........because we always came to your help when you were in need. Right now we have a general feeling all that help in need has been only one way. I don't want to talk about back stabbing and staff.
We may be ignorant, stupids, arrogants. We can not point on the map where Washington DC is, but we don't need to know that because we know somebody is paid to know that. And that's enough. But we are generous also and with all due respect I have a feeling that your country used that quality of ours many times.
We might not have the best system( it could be improved), but it's been working for the last 2 hundred years and we like it. In the same period of time you guys changed 5 republics so far.
Adieu mon ami et vive la France.

ferrydude

29th Jul 2003, 20:31

Very erll stated, Count. Or, as a redneck might say, "Frickin A well told, Bubba!"

PorcoRosso

30th Jul 2003, 21:44

Bonjour Guys

Planetruth

Just one thing
It's not because my mother is living & working in Normandy that she is more involved
than others in teaching WW2 history, it's part of the program... and it's a huge part of
it. There is a misconception that french are hiding to themselves the atrocities committed
by their parents in WW2. It's totally untrue. as I mentionned previously, we know about collaborators
, we know about french facist group or pro-petain special police. A lot of TV drama or movies are dealing
with that. We are taught in school that only a few percent ( 2 I think ) of the population was involved
in the resistance. Paradoxically I can't remember my history teacher mentionning the true Heroes
, those who volunteered to England with De Gaulle, Those who joined the Russian Air Force (squadron Normandie-Niémen)
and so on ...

"The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface
the gravesites."

Well, they were probably 2 or 3 uneducated bastards, and I can tell you that all french were shocked by
those events, which happened BTW in a Commonwealth cemetary; as far as I know, the US gravesbv were not vandalised.

Countbat

"How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle"

Probably not very well, I reckon, but that was a real risk since the US government never recognised De Gaulle as the
French leader .... preferring Vichy and Petain nearly until the end of the war (there was a vichyst embassy office in washington)
If de Gaulle had not been there; certainly Petain would have, and with a US approval.

As far i am concerned, nothing wrong with USA being the superpower today, just a bit sad George Bush is in charge
But I am not voting over there, right ?
I am not a member of the "we should rule the world" brigade, So I won't try to
vainly demonstrate that we, french, european are better than others to do that.

As far as Mr Chirac's true motivation in Iraq are concerned, I know that there is a huge business and financial
apsect involved, but don't tell me Bush and Rumsfeld don't have any, or I will have a deep laugh ;)

To come back on the subject, I can't see why you are blaming dreamguy for wanting to fly abroad, it's not considered
a defection, here, to try other places. If dreamguy is a US national, it takes some bravery to consider leaving his roots
family and friends.
Nothing wrong with that.

AIRWAY

30th Jul 2003, 22:36

It's his choice, i dont see the problem. Like me one day i would love to fly in Australia, like there is Australians flying here in the Uk, anything wrong with that?

ferrydude

31st Jul 2003, 03:18

Hmmmm, I think our dream boy will find that most countries are not quite as receptive to US pilots working there as the US is to them working here

LAZYB

31st Jul 2003, 03:59

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED

Say again. :zzz:

Nani

31st Jul 2003, 04:51

US spending on education could be read by clicking here (http://edworkforce.house.gov/issues/108th/education/funding/budgetfactsheet020403.htm).

I am getting little tired of hearing how US kids learn geography by the latest US wars.
You can click here (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/07/0715_030715_geographycompetition.html) and read about the winners.

Grass is never greener on the other side but at least in US,we seem to make,learn,admit and try to correct our mistakes.

Regis Potter

1st Aug 2003, 02:07

Hmm...

A sponsored geography competition is no more representative of average knowledge across a broad cross-section of population than the Olympics is representative of average fitness; The U.S. always does well but that doesn't mean it's a nation of atheletes.

Bubbette

6th Aug 2003, 23:15

Does the word troll mean anything to you folks?

Iron City

7th Aug 2003, 21:57

PorcoRosso:

You did not vote for George W, but come to think of it most Americans didn't either. Not even the ones who bothered to vote.

Pretty sad, the turnout looked like a European election. Shame we can't get turnout like the old Soviet elections (98% plus) except in some parts of Chicago and New Orleans where even the dead "vote early and often".

Please don't think that the No Child Left Behind stuff is indicative of what is spent on education in USA. Most money for education is local and state funded, not federal. And that particular act is a mostly an authorization, without nearly enough federal money actually appropriated. Most visable result is forests of trees felled for paper and plans and consultants and some "little red schoolhouse" doors on the U.S. Dept. Of Ed. HQ in Washington.

Therehas been lots of practical advise for DreamGuy in between these digressive posts. I understand Alaska is like flying in other parts of the world but you don't need a passport. Alaska is where 3/4 of the people fly aircraft and half of them have licenses and it is a state law that an aircraft must carry a rifle and ammunition. Is this a great country or what?

ferrydude

7th Aug 2003, 22:02

Yeah, it would seem that it is a repeat of the election where Kennedy (Dems) stole the election from Nixon (Reps), only the parties were reversed this time. That being stated, do you think Gore would be handling things better?

Iron City

7th Aug 2003, 22:05

I think so Ferrydude. At least he didn't hide out in the Texas ANG defending Lubbock from the commie hordes and doesn't need somebody with abriefing book to know where Liberia is.

ferrydude

7th Aug 2003, 22:12

You are so right, Mr. Gore, served honorably as a press weenie, and being the son of a prominent Congressman, had 24/7 bodyguard protection to ensure that no bad ppl might try harm against him. And, he did invent the internet.

Iron City

8th Aug 2003, 02:38

Well, Al junior may have served honorably as a "press weenie" and his dad was both a Congressman (7 terms) and a senator (3 terms) from Tenessee but you must admit he was 10,000 or so miles closer to the bad guys than George W ever got, if that counts, becaue they are all G*& d&*%$ politicians.

ferrydude

8th Aug 2003, 05:16

I suppose it is a matter of opinion. I seem to remember that the commie threat was taken quite seriously during those year. Air Guard units, including TX units intercepted quite a few Bears along the east coast. That being said,I have to respect a former fighter Jock more than a Journalist anyday. FYI, Al Junior declined a 04 run for the presidency. If he is so sure he had it in the bag, Why????

WestWind1950

9th Aug 2003, 13:02

I just re-discovered this thread... it's topic of discussion keeps getting hijacked, but ok....

I'm an American living in Europe (Germany)... 34 years now! I grew up in the most beautiful city of the world, San Diego. Now who would trade San Diego for GERMANY???? well, at the time it seemed the right thing to do, afterall I met, then married, a Lufthansa pilot.... he had been in San Diego for his training.
In the mean time we're divorced and I'm still living here. I try to visit home once a year and there was a time when I was considering going back. But, after checking job opportunites and benefits, plus visiting with old class mates and realising they really don't know anything about the rest of the world (the USA seems to be one big island)... I decided, yes, it's a nice place to visit... but live there? hmmmm.. maybe I've become too Europeanised (after 34 years kind of unavoidable) ... and, I also have here my kids, in the mean time a great job and I think adjusting to life in the USA would be difficult... I think I would "compare" too much ("in Europe we don't do that, in Europe we do it this way... ").

I could get the Germany citizenship anytime, immediately, but I would have to give up my American one (my kids have both because their dad is German, mom American, but I can't get both... darn!).... NO WAY am I going to give up my American citizenship! It's still a part of ME, of my personality, of my upbringing. I experience no discrimination, so no problem (I even work for the German government so if they don't mind, why should I? ooooops, did I "out" myself??).

@DreamBoy
Learning the local language is definetly a must.
Getting a job will be very difficult because the unemployment rate among ATPL's is extremely high at the moment, as well as in the general employment fields (unemployment about 13% at the moment in some places). As an American you are unable to get a job at the European Aerospace Agency or some other pure European authorities... I know, I tried! Though I think, if it was necessary, a fight in court could amend that because you're not allowed to discriminate over here.

If you have the chance, then come over and see Europe, experience the European life style, but don't get your hopes up too high.

Good luck!

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-072.gif Westy

PlaneTruth

10th Aug 2003, 09:02

Airway,

"Like me one day i would love to fly in Australia, like there is Australians flying here in the Uk, anything wrong with that?"

One of our male Flight Attendants is an Aussie. I asked him, "What the hell brought you to the U.S?" His answer (accent added):

"Auy loike ahhgly wimmin!"

(To which my mind wanders...

USA= Chelea Clinton
Austrailia= Olivia Neutron Bomb)

'Nuff said.

PT:ok:

CaptainJurassic

10th Aug 2003, 09:15

:ok: I left the US of A around 30 years ago because the only flying job I could find was overseas. Then met and married a British Cabin Attendant (Stewardess we called them in those days) Since then I have lived mainly in the UK (if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy) with forays to some of the less developed parts of the world. I visit the states regularly, but to be honest, I like the experience of living overseas, eating strange foods (Bubble & squeak etc.) and believe it or not, English beer. As the age of retirement approaches, we are considering moving back to the States, but it isn't our first priority. Having gotten used to the expat life, I recommend it highly. Get out of your "America is the only place in the world to live" mentality and there are lots of options. Be open minded and go for it. It's really quite enjoyable. :D

Hulk

10th Aug 2003, 19:11

Europe? what is that?

3 countries: canada, USA , and mexico it's all I know. So what are you talking about?, where is Europe?, South of mexico?, close of Irak?.

Please, explain me!

Hulk
A US educated citizen:p

ferrydude

10th Aug 2003, 19:32

"Please, explain me!"

I'll try to explain you, you sound like an angry young male who had aviation training in the US because of the expense in your country was prohibitive. Now back in your country, you are frustrated like many others and lash out at Americans from behind the safety of your computer. I think perhaps there is an inferiority complex involved, smallish unit perhaps. Lashing out from the internet makes you feel like a big man. How's that?

wellthis

11th Aug 2003, 01:13

Two parts:
Part oneA: Agreed that a lot of Americans are not completely versed with the rest of the world (even the great vast country up north, as they think we ALL live in igloos and our country is actually much smaller than US), but US is truly the country that everyone loves to hate until they need them! They generally lead the way in our 'global village', and they (along with a lot of other places) are the land of the free and brave, but in 300 million people you are bound to have some disagreement.

B: As proud as we may be of our origins, we have to think universally in today's world. Posts about the 'few chosen ones that were born in the promised land' are not very constructive since we are all born as noble beings-wherever that might be.

Part2: As for the original question: Some less than healthy comments on this thread are exactly why it is healthy for us to do get out of our buble and explore the rest of the world-and that goes for everyone. It may be a little hard to get flying jobs with low experience, but one never knows until one tries. Plus, we don't all have to be fancy-pants pilots!!

Live long and prosper!

chuks

11th Aug 2003, 03:02

The main problem for someone with a US ATPL is that it isn't an ICAO license. It might be worth thinking about getting a Canadian ATPL, since that is an ICAO license, as a first step to finding work outside the narrow boundaries of the USA and its affiliates.

Then the next problem will be having the hours and experience for anything but the bottom-level jobs. My experience has been coming up a day late and a dollar short on that, somehow, but I still have managed some sort of always being in work, at least.

Have a look in the back pages of Flight International for a basic idea of what is on offer, if anything. Things seem to be in the doldrums right now, sad to say.

I wouldn't worry too much about being desperate to leave the States. You want out, you can get out. The problem will come later when you go looking for somewhere to go back to. Then you find out that, `You can never go home again.´

Good luck, and don't mind the jeers from the Yahoos.

moku

11th Aug 2003, 18:10

I spent the best 9 years of life in the USA and would return in
a flash if the INS would agree to give me Green Card...
:ok:

tankermytanker

17th Aug 2003, 17:09

I don't think this Dreamer is for real, but there are several reasons for getting work overseas. All my time was with the USAF, met European girl while in USAFE, married, stationed in SoCal, got out, and wanted to live where we had lots of family to raise kids in the right family environment. SoCal is not the right environment, but it is the "Land of Wildest Police Chases!". It's a great place to visit, but I had no family there, and getting an airline job near my much more limited family in the States wasn't as easy. Plus getting a job with my current(hopefully last) company, I knew I wouldn't do as many overnights (another plus for a family man). But of course there is the money; that will probably always cause me to think if I made the right decision. But since US Air was the company I was closest to being hired with before I got hired over here, I know I'd be furloughed right now, and probably flying over some sand somewhere.

For all you warning this guy to 'not let the door hit' him on the way out, he could easily have his reasons, without being a malcontent.

Tank
p.s. But I still don't think he's for real.
p.p.s. Forgot to mention, my CAA ATPL cost me a hell of alot, like 11,000 Sterling.

AA717driver

8th Sep 2003, 00:11

I had an ex-RAF pilot in my TWA newhire class in '88. I just assumed that it was relatively easy to obtain a green card.

I'll have to ask him how he did it.TC

Random Electron

8th Sep 2003, 15:58

CaptainJurassic.

You are obviously a man of impeccable and discerning taste, in that you enjoy the odd pint of English Bitter.

In fact, you are not alone, many of your country folk do enjoy our beer, including Madonna (If anybody saw her interview with Johnathon Ross, she extolled the virtues of "Timothy Taylor's", a hand crafted real ale from Yorkshire.

My neice from Rhode Island and her friend from Atlanta recenty visited us, and with some trepidation I introduced them to the delights of English Bitter. To my astonishment, they loved it! After all these years of listening to Australians denigrating our beer, it came as a surprise to hear something to the contrary!

Their comment was that the only US beers which come close are to be found coming from the micro breweries of Washington and Oregon.

teropa

13th Sep 2003, 00:31

After reading all the posts in this thread, there's something that really strikes the eye.

First, I'm not an American... far from it. I live in Finland, up north... next to Russia :). However, as wealthy as we Finnish people are, we couldn't be farther from the American attitude, which seems pretty elitistic and self-centered. Americans seem to be proud of all the wealth they have, but they're not the only ones.
It's as if Europe were somewhat worse than the States.

I've been to Florida and N.Y. and from what I've seen there, the American mentality is not an illusion...

It strikes me as incredible that there are persons here, who will start name calling and other kinds of malignant stuff towards a person who politely asks for advise on opportunities outside of US. I thought it was an interesting topic, but lo and behold... the ever proud yankees are at it again. I've seen this kind of behaviour at internet fora many times before, but it never ceases to amaze me just how stupid and ignorant some people are.

Other than that... interesting reading. Let the flaming begin...

Tero