View Full Version : What if..?
I have just read an AAIB report about a pilot who suffered a total electrical failure in an Arrow over Kent in poor weather.
The pilot decided to attempt a field landing but unfortunately bent the plane rather badly.
Now, I am not questioning this particular pilots desicion.. we don't know what the situation was really like. However, I have always assumed that if I cant use the radio, I would just go and land somewhere like Headcorn or Rochester. Is this not the thing to do? What is the procedure?
I 'll be interested to hear your thoughts.
FlyingForFun
3rd Jul 2003, 00:11
Impossible to know the circumstances. How do you get a total electrical failure? If the battery dies, the alternator should supply power, and vice versa, so maybe there were multiple problems which required a landing asap?
In my aircraft, with a total electrical failure, the engine will quit, since both fuel pumps are electrically operated. This is not the case in the Arrow, as far as I know, where the main fuel pump is engine-driven, but further emphasises the point that you mustn't make assumptions or generalisations.
You mention bad weather. Was he IFR? Was the weather such that it would have been inadviseable to continue without electrics because he couldn't navigate properly? From your brief description, this sounds like the most likely explaination to me, but who knows.
But yes, I agree with you - if I had a complete electrical failure, but all other systems were ok, and the weather was such that I could navigate visually, going to an airfield which regularly accepts non-radio traffic is probably the best bet in most cases.
FFF
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QDMQDMQDM
3rd Jul 2003, 00:25
Carry a handheld?
Penguina
3rd Jul 2003, 00:32
Doesn't the AAIB report supply details about type and factors leading to decision? I would be interested to know why she decided to do a forced landing.
bluskis
3rd Jul 2003, 00:34
A corroded battery lead could fail totally. This I believe would result in a total electrical failure as , I also believe, the alternators supply through the battery .
If the bad weather was not only over Kent, but over everywhere else, he had problems. If he was IMC he appears to have got visual without hitting anyone else and at least appears to have walked away from the landing.
What was the detail in the report?
vanhigher
3rd Jul 2003, 03:48
i believe that , in a SE, an alternator failure would cause total electrical failure once the battery had totally discharged (of course the engine would continue to run provided the a/c had a mechanical fuel pump) ..
I fear I didn't make my point clear enough in my post. What I wanted to know was what would you do if you couldn't use your radio for whatever reason.
I wasnt trying to speculate why this lady crashed her Arrow. Just to cease your speculations, here is the report.
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/dec00/gbcop.htm
Well contrary to a lot of opinion the radio does n't make the aeroplane fly. So presuming a conventional aircraft they are all designed (and certified) to fly without electrical power. It might be inconvenient but they do still fly.
If you are outside controlled airspace, stay outside it and divert to a field that accepts non-radio traffic. In it, continue to you destination and hold until you get light signals (could be forever!!)
If you're really unlucky and in the clag - go find some low ground or the sea to descend into. This one is really a little stressful!!
But the chances of a sudden electrical failure are very low - it has happened, usually with a short circuit that might cause smoke or a fire. But electrical problems generally give a lot of notice - most aircraft will run on their batteries only for much longer than on the fuel in their tanks!
For easy navigation in a stressful situation, carry a handheld GPS. Why on earth wouldn't you? Personally I also have a handheld transceiver. I'm not saying that these two will solve all electrical failure problems, but I think they'd be pretty useful.
LowNSlow
3rd Jul 2003, 17:40
Just as an aside, an alternator will not supply power if the battery fails completely as the exciter in the alternator needs a DC supply from the battery to allow it to work.
FlyingForFun
3rd Jul 2003, 17:45
LowNSlow,
Presumably there would have been enough power in the battery to start the engine - and therefore excite the alternator. If the battery then gives up in flight, the alternator will already be running, and will continue to run. I think.
Dude~, sorry, but you didn't really expect to be able to start a thread without us dragging it off topic, did you? ;)
FFF
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bluskis
3rd Jul 2003, 18:15
I think she did the right thing, if in the circumstances she felt events had put her beyond her capabilities.
Optons might have been to try and locate Rochester, which was nearby, but on a hill, and in bad weather
Turn north until regaining better weather, but with stanstead zone ahead.
Use a mobile phone to communicate, but how do you find the number in bad weather, no autopilot and no passenger.
One point, she was VFR, but appears to be in IMC.
Low & slow
I lost everything electrical when a battery strap broke, so I think you have explained why.
No worries Flyingforfun! Interesting replies.
What I suppose got to me was how well am I prepared for emergencies other than the ones we are forced to practice every now and then, ie PFLS, and well thats it.
What about brake failure, undercarriage failure, flat tyre, flap failure, elevator failure, throttle linkage failure, prop overspeed, blocked asi, failed vacum pump, ******ed trim, the list goes on...!
Well, I've been reading Chuck Yeager's book recently. Its bloody amazing. The thing that seems to have helped him most was his imtimate and detailed knowledge of his aircraft systems enabling him to make acuurate relevant and instant desicions based on thorough preparation. I aspire to that, but simply dont have the time or access to the relevant material. I am thinking of buying a POH for the Arrow I fly and learning more about its systems and potential problems / solutions. (There is in the plane but I dont live near enoguh to be able to read it whenever I want)
Anyway, just got me thinking like!
:cool:
Coming from the world of somewhat larger keroseneburning aircraft (those who do have engines), the alternators I've come across have been able to generate their own power for critical engine functions as well as for the electromagnetical coils in the alternator through a permanent magnet generator.
Further, engines are required to be able to suck up their own fuel should the boost pumps go - at least below a certain altitude, IIRC.
I do not have any regulations at hand now nor time to look it up, but does this not apply to GA as well?
Anyone have the applicable certification requirements handy?
Cheers,
Fred - curious
englishal
3rd Jul 2003, 20:12
There are procedures even at big airfields to deal with radio failure. For example, for one such field you head for a certain VRP, orbit 4 times to the right, head inbound and join downwind at 500' above pattern alt, head downwind and make one orbit, then come in for landing, while watching out for signals from the tower [or something like that, maybe I'll brush up on it :D].
I think this pilot did the right thing, they walked away from the scene, only bending the plane. They obviously felt an urgent need to land for one reason or another, and so did, and survived. In hindsight I bet they can think of a hundred reasons why they f*cked up, but its all in the past, hopefully they learned from it and continue to fly.
My tip of the day is to know which circuit breaker is the electric trim, as these can sometimes run wild, and if it happens on approach you can be in big trouble...
CU
EA:D
While nobody can even begin to guess what happened in the case referred to, anyone flying a plane which could not be easily flown/navigated with no electrics (and that one could argue applies to anyone flying, or potentially flying, at night or in IMC) should carry a handheld radio and a handheld GPS.
The cost is minimal, on the scale of what it costs to maintain any sort of currency.
willbav8r
4th Jul 2003, 05:42
I lost all electrical in an Archer.
Of course, day VMC near lots of airports, so didn't exactly panic. The alternator decided to crap out, and (must have been a weak battery) at first the radios became weak, lcd displays flickered, then it all went quiet (the radios). Reduced the electrical and had an uneventful landing. I had only been up for 10 mins, so it happened relatively fast.
In the clag, without knowing the reason (short circuit?, fire to follow? dodgy engine driven fuel pump?) I can see exactly why this driver might want to land asap.
A handheld GPS doesn't keep you right side up (even a Garmin 196 with t&b, AI etc). Handheld radio doesn't keep you from nailing a mountain (even a transceiver with a VOR). If you are ready with these things up and running, then maybe....
I sure wouldn't chance pressing on if I had an out. BUT, I like to think I wouldn't be VFR in IMC......
What I didn't do when I lost the juice was sqwawk 7600. Sort of useless without any power (I was afraid of short circuit, so when I wasn't getting electric power I closed the Master). Still think I should have done it though. Next time.