Start Ups

[wing_nut1]

Hi guys 'n' gals

Just posting to see if any one knows the rules on start up concerning the headsets. Where i work we have not been shown how to use headsets and when i question them about it, i get the 'you dont need to know' kinda answer. The only reason i am concerned that i should know this is becasue, for example, i had to do a start up on a CRJ the other day and the angle that the sun was at (regardless of where i stood) made it impossible to see the crew (like looking at a mirror ) I could see the occasional movement from in the cock pit but could not make it out...if the capt had done the 'thumbs down' at any point i would of assumed it was thumbs up and walked off!

If i had been shown how to use the headsets i would not be 'guessing' whislt doing the start ups which is not good at all!

Any info would be great on the matter!



:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Probably worth asking somebody reasonably senior in your airline's ground crew what they think you should be doing. Procedures will vary between operators.

G

[Chef]

Wing nut

As a rule you should be using a headset for every departure/pushback or engine start. The only time you would not use a headset is during thunderstorms. You will find that most Captains will refuse to push and start without one with the exception during thunderstorms.

If you have not been trained for headsets mate you should not do them at all. If you had an engine fire it is important to pass concise details to the skipper as he wont be able to see the engines more so on the CRJ.

Cover your back and get the correct training.

Rgds

Chef

[GlueBall]

Be mindful as well about a second microphone jack that some jets have installed "downstairs:" It may be a cabin service interphone! :confused:

[wing_nut1]

Thanks all of youI have just been trained the past few days and said i would refuse to do start ups unless i knew how to do it...they had me using them on the next flight in!!

Can anyone point to me on a website where the rule is that you should be using headstes all the time (except thunderstorms) as i was told by the boss that they used to have to do it all the time but for some reason (which he cant remember) he stopped :confused: Any help would be much appriciated


Thanks all!!:ok:

[eng123]

Speaking from an engineering point of view,I always like to have some-one on the headset during engine runs.I presume for the same reason's a flight crew have.
You can't see the engine during start so first of all you need to be aware you are clear to start ie. no-body or nothing in the way.It's also handy to know there is positive N1 rotation as it can be seen visually before it's indicated in the flight deck.
Also,being in the flight deck,I would be completly unaware of a fuel/oil leak gushing out which I would particularly like to be aware of!

[wing_nut1]

Yeah! I mean its not the easiest of tasks to explane to the flight deck that there is an oil leak for example with-out a head set. It also means that if the pilot has a problem he doesnt have to use sign language to tell you whats up. I just wish i could find a recent article to show my boss that the use of headsets must be inforced!!

[avioniker]

Wing Nut,
you won't find a website that states a requirement for headset use on engine startups. The requirement has to come from the company regulations which are approved and enforced by the country of origin's laws and regulations. Here's the rules for my company:

AIRCRAFT GUIDEMEN AND HAND SIGNALS


A. GENERAL

1. Aircraft guidemen and wing-walkers are assigned to assist pilots and taxi/tow personnel to position aircraft in a safe manner (see Sec. 36, Safety & Environmental Policy Manual). Each general manager and Maintenance manager should determine which personnel are assigned the responsibility for guiding/clearing aircraft.

2. In the event that ground-to-cockpit communications cannot be established due to malfunction or thunderstorms in the airfield vicinity, the guideman will proceed to the cockpit five minutes prior to departure to coordinate the hand signals planned to be used during pushback or powerback operations.



B. REQUIREMENTS

1. Ground personnel coordinating the safe movement of aircraft and ground equipment are termed many different titles (wing watcher, clearance guide, groundman, etc.). Only personnel currently qualified and authorized as an aircraft guideman by a local station supervisor should assist and/or direct aircraft movement. This includes meeting and dispatching of aircraft (see Sec. 35, Safety & Environmental Policy Manual).

NOTE: Personnel not qualified should give only a STOP signal to an aircraft operator who is signaling for guidance, then should secure assistance from a supervisor or aircraft guideman as soon as possible.


2. Each aircraft guideman is responsible for giving proper hand signals in accordance with the following applicable illustrations, or giving proper verbal interphone signals in accordance with the applicable illustration titles, and for allowing reasonable personnel reaction times and equipment clearances for the existing circumstances.

3. Each aircraft guideman is responsible for the safe operation in his/her assigned area when an aircraft is moving. He/she should immediately give a STOP signal anytime he/she feels his/her signal is not being followed or understood or if there is any doubt that the aircraft can be moved safely.

4. During any involved aircraft movement (terminal operations and other multi-factor operations) one person should function and be known as the aircraft guideman. The guideman should be the only one to relay signals to the tractor operator and/or aircraft operator (whether by interphone signal or by hand signal) and he/she should be immediately informed when any change of plan/schedule/condition occurs which affects accomplishment of the operation. The guideman is responsible for checking that the area is clear of all equipment or obstructions before giving any signal to move an aircraft.

[wing_nut1]

Thanks for that avioniker,

I will dig out the company files a ring a few people to ask them what the current status is on the matter!!!

Thanks everyone for your resonses! :ok: