View Full Version : Ryanair to Reduce Maintenance?
crossfeedclosed
19th Jun 2003, 02:56
Strong rumour that Ryanair are about to cut out routine Engineering cover for their turnarounds at DUB and STN. The only check would be the pilot's walkaround. Anybody from FR like to comment? If its true it seems that cost is the consideration. Is this legal? or safe? What do Ryanair pilots think of this?
CormacL
19th Jun 2003, 03:45
Technically speaking , as long as the a/c undergoes it`s regular maintance as required by JAR ops ( daily , ramp 1,2 etc) then as long as it remains within these routines , an engineer does not have to attend every turnround . It becomes the responsibility of the inbound capt to state to the best of his knowledge that the a/c is fit for it`s next service or to indicate that there is (are) defects that need to be fixed .
If the tech log is clean then the normal cxs carried out by the next crew are deemed to fullfil JAR ops , if the tech log contains defects then they have to be fixed or ADD`d .
So from what I understand about Ryan is that they are just doing what most major airlines do , rightly or wrongly , as a matter of course .
cheers
Yep, been the same with every airline I have worked for...all quite legal, and safe.
Those who are complaining about RyanAir should pull up their socks and apply for a job, instead of moaning all the time.
In trim
19th Jun 2003, 05:05
Agreed....this is standard. Having an engineer attend every turnround at main bases is a luxury for many airlines.
The main advantage tends to be quicker identification / diagnosis / rectification of a problem. Will the removal impact on punctuality given the quick turnrounds? Time will tell.
In trim's remarks reminded me of a small(?) possible concern.
If the turn is too (very) short, an external inspection could be rushed (or perhaps not done at all), with possible difficulties down the road.
New(er) aircraft are incredibly reliable, but sometimes untoward problems occur...with possible bad results.
cargo boy
19th Jun 2003, 16:13
Talk about unecessary scaremongering. With a title like "Ryanair to Reduce Maintenance?" what are you trying to suggest? Have you any idea about every day airline operations? Unless you are flying for one of the bloated flag carriers or flying heavy metal on long haul routes you will very rarely have an 'engineer' available at every location you fly to.
All the major IT carriers from Europe fly typical two sector duties, often to small airports around the Mediterranean and they have no engineering cover down route. Every crew is capable of performing a walk around inspection and that is all that is required as long as the a/c has had its 'daily check' and there are no other defects. Even if there are, there is the MEL for reference. Should there be a problem then it is more difficult as a local engineer has to be sourced and sometimes one has to be flown in but it is, thankfully, a rare thing due to the inherent reliability of the more modern aircraft.
No need for dramatic headlines such as the one on this thread but I suppose its too late and we will probably see a 'shock horror' tabloid headline over the next few days as another bored hack pops in here to see what leads he can get. Eee bah gum, when I were a lad we had to carry our own tools to fix all the defects on turn around. These days all the youngsters expect to have an engineer on hand. Bah, humbug! :hmm:
Basil
19th Jun 2003, 20:07
Under previous national UK regs it was acceptable for pilots to carry out Pre Departure Inspection: refuel, top up eng oil etc. For non-MEL defects which the captain considered acceptable, dispensation might be obtained from company duty engineering manager if in agreement.
crossfeedclosed
20th Jun 2003, 07:46
Sorry guys but this is a genuine query. Is it really true that most major airlines do not have their aircraft looked at by an engineer all through the day? I know that most companies nowadays have their crews do the PDI at an outstation but I thought that just about every one has an engineer to cover the turnaround when it gets back to base. Engineers look at an aircraft in a very different way to pilots and I would certainly prefer to fly with an airline where this is the norm. A daily inspection during the night is haardly enough for an aircraft that might do 10 or 12 sectors during a single day.
Burger Thing
20th Jun 2003, 10:30
411A wrote
Those who are complaining about RyanAir should pull up their socks and apply for a job, instead of moaning all the time.
I couldn't agree more. Fortunately the number of really silly: "Ryanair does these, Ryanair does that..." threads has reduced a little.
Easy Glider
21st Jun 2003, 01:41
I didn't realise that tosser 411A was still around. I'm even more surprised anyone is still listening to that bogus pilot/ airline manager.
Easy Glider
I really hate to burst your bubble, but 411A is an extremely experienced airline pilot.............................
Mutt.
JW411
21st Jun 2003, 03:47
I think the originator of this thread either used to fly with Imperial Airways as a passenger before WWII or is a wind-up merchant. Does he really believe that an airline with 60 or 70 destinations has an engineer at every stop just waiting to leap out of the bushes every time an aeroplane makes a 30 minute turnaround?
Does he have any idea what that would cost? My company has its own engineering cover at a few well-used destinations and all other destinations are covered (if needed) by contract engineering.
He is quite right in stating that engineers and pilots look at aircraft quite differently. I have on several occasions found serious defects on my pre-flight which had previously gone unnoticed.
As far as I am concerned the final consideration is that I and several others are likely to be at the scene of the accident if I get things wrong whereas the engineers are most likely to be safely on the ground!
HOVIS
21st Jun 2003, 04:14
Most of the major airlines have been turning a/c around without engineers for some years now.
The only time a BA shorthaul (for example) a/c is looked at by an engineer is if the flight crew find a defect or there is a scheduled inspection that requires looking at. An a/c can go 24hrs and do 6 or 7 sectors and only be looked at at the start and end of the day.
Doesn't matter if it's a safe way to operate or not, the CAA/JAA have made it legal.
The greenback rules today!! :hmm:
Easy Glider
21st Jun 2003, 05:28
Mutt....... Says who?.... 411A Well it must be true then!!!!!
spannersatcx
21st Jun 2003, 14:58
He is quite right in stating that engineers and pilots look at aircraft quite differently. I have on several occasions found serious defects on my pre-flight which had previously gone unnoticed.
So have I, but that doesn't make me any better (or worse) than anyone else, I think, we are all human! :*
Aviation Trainer too
30th Jun 2003, 15:35
Maybe the next article on Ryanair will be : Ryanair wants pilots to fly the aircraft!
What a load of bullocks this topic is, I agree it is scare mongering. Within Ryanair everbody knows that EVERYBODY is watching us for various reasons: fear, because we are growing extremely fast. Envy because we are profitable and have a great on time performance and best of all passengers know what to expect: great fares!
fatboy slim
30th Jun 2003, 15:52
Crossfeedclosed - No this does not mean that an engineer will not see the A/C all day. There is the requiement for the Daily Check inspection to be carried out. An engineer will also have to attend if there is a defect the Captain cannot/doesn't want to defer. This is talking about an engineer turning up to check automatically at home base every turn, and maybe even doing the pushback headset as some airlines do. Its not necessary to see the eng team every sector, anyway they are much more interested in (a) if there is any spare food going and (b) the cabin crew. Meant as a compliment chaps.
Yes but most airlines have their engineers inspect their aircraft at their main bases because it helps them keep the aircraft serviceable, safe and on time.
This development certanly indicates the reliability of modern aircraft however it would be interesting to know how many defects "happen" on the last sector of the day.
bijave
30th Jun 2003, 22:17
I must say, as critical about Ryanair's social management as I am, this new procedure does not sound like a problem at all to me. It is quite redundant to have a technician on the ground each and every time you block.
In short, this does not sound like an issue to me. Tackle rosters, working contract protection, social security, having to pay to send your CV and to go through the selection process, paying for your wardrobe, etc, instead. Now, that is critical !